Have been lurking for a long time..... Now need help....

[Mustafa]

And now you wait and really don't do anything.

[Carolina]

And now you wait and really don't do anything.

10-4 Sir, yes sir!
I looked at the tank this morning and everyone was settled in their new home. The water was clear, the shrimp doing their shrimp things, the snails being snails, and Hermie being Hermie.
It seems everyone escaped unharmed.
I like the way It looks.
One thing though, I will definitely have to get more snails from you in a couple of weeks for the new tank as tank #1 needs all the snails it currently has.
All that waste has to go.... Most of it was under the shrimp cave, so I am convinced it is poop.
Tank #2 is coming along beautifully. You can see the film forming on the white sand, and the rocks are already covered.
The water is crystal clear.
Very exciting!
Don't worry.... Won't do a thing to any of those tanks.
Will check in when I come back from this trip, on thrusday!
Thanks!

[Mustafa]

Sounds like a plan.

[Carolina]

Just got home from my trip, and everything is looking great.
Tank #1 has no hair algae, all the shrimp are happy and healthy, the water is clear, and that nasty layer of "crap" has just about disappeared. The substrate looks pretty clean! There is a very thin brownish film on the top of the tank.... But doesn't seem to be bothering anyone.

Tank #2, the new tank is now with visible biofilm all over the sand.... Which I know it's a good thing, but the white sand was so cool! The rocks are also covered, and the coral is no longer white... It's a light brown now.
There is a thin, thin layer of algae forming on the glass.
Unfortunately there is hair algae on the filter (brought from the original tank), I will remove it tomorrow. Before it spreads.
It's been 11 days since I set it up.

[Carolina]

Concerned about tank #1,the original tank....
Now that I got to take a good look at day time, there is a brown film on top, and I can see a tiny brown floating cloud forming on the right side of the tank.
The cloud is not major... But I am wondering if it was carried with the net, or the shrimp, snails.... From tank #2, and is now growing.
I don't want to lose anymore shrimp...
Aside from. That, everything looks ok

[Mustafa]

"Clouds" or any kind of growth are nothing to be concerned about as long as you don't keep adding nutrients. Just let the tank do its thing.

[Carolina]

Well.... The last one was exactly like this and killed 30 shrimp quickly.... So it wasn't necessarily nothing to be concerned about.
It grew in 12 hours.... It's eerily similar to what was going on on tank #2
No nutrients have been added to this tank since January, Mustafa.... And I hope you can understand I am a bit traumatized here....

[Mustafa]

I understand. But what I'm telling you comes from personal experience. I have a tank here that has been been entirely cloudy (I can barely see the larvae floating in it) for almost a year now and the shrimp are doing just fine and reproducing. It's the only tank that way and I suspect it's because it's the only tank without any snails in it. In any case...the "cloudiness" caused by microorganisms alone won't kill anything. If there are enough nutrients to deplete the oxygen in the tank..now that's a different matter. The fact that you had so much hair algae (and other algae) in the tank before is a clear indicator that *at some point* lots of nutrients got introduced to the tank. All I'm saying is that if you don't introduce more nutrients now there is nothing really to worry about if you just leave the tank be. Put the snails in at some point and let them work on the algae. The rest will take care of itself as neither the "cloud" nor the algae can live on absolutely nothing if no nutrients are introduced. Otherwise we'd be dealing with "magic" as algae and microorganisms would be growing out of nothing. In any case, here is a picture of a half a gallon (1.8 liters) mason jar with 11 Supershrimp that I've had on my kitchen table for the last 7-8 months. No filter, no heater...not even a light on top (gets indirect daylight through a window). As you can see it's crystal clear and no problems at all. It looks like they may actually start breeding soon (females developing eggs in ovaries). I barely feed this jar (every 4-7 weeks...a tiny piece of food). All I did with this jar was....absolutely nothing.

[Carolina]

Ok.... But the brown cloud on the top is growing... It seems that it's the breakdown from that brown film that was on top of the water - when I topped off the tank, the film broke down into a cloud. It's just on the top.... At least that brings me some comfort. There are 15 of your snails on this tank. I removed the hair algae, and it hasn't come back. There is also 2 chaetamorpha, one marimo ball, and your algae moss.
I am not certain how the chaetamorphas are doing..... They were looking very healthy before this brown cloud..... now not so much (but I am not sure). I will check on them in a couple of days. In the other tank, they we killed in a day or so.
The shrimp, snails are doing ok, although they are all hanging on the bottom of the tank - before this showed up, they were all over the glass, up high, everywhere.
There is a nerite snail all the way on the top of the tank, trying to escape...... But he is the only one, and I know they do that from time to time.

Ok..... with that said, I am off to your store to buy another set of snails and chaetamorpha to the new tank..... the time has come, my friend!

[Carolina]

Bad, really bad.
I got home today from a trip, to find tank #1 with both chaetamorpha dead, several of your snails dead, several dead shrimp, two small nerite dead, and my big nerite about to die.
My Marino ball is looking bad for the first time ever.
This tank never, ever had water issues before I transfer the shrimp from the other tank. I never had a death, no chaetamorpha ever died. This thing is evil.
So..... Still do nothing and just wait for everything to die?
I washed my snails really well and transferred them to the new tank.
Tomorrow I am getting a filter with purigen and carbon. I can't just watch everyone die without doing anything...

[Carolina]

So... I decided to install a filter on tank #1, with carbon and a bag of purigen.
At this point, it's my only hope.
I can't transfer the shrimp and snails to the new tank as the last time I did this, the brown evil cloud transferred along even though I was super careful not to.
I did transfer my nerite snails, after throughly cleaning them as their lives are hanging by a thread. Unfortunately because of the transfer I had to add bacteria on tank #2 to keep them alive... If they survive at all
On tank #1, to minimize the current, I bought plenty of chaetamorpha from the reef store for added shelter (the original in the tank were all dead), and installed a fluval polishing sponge on the water output. It's clear they don't like the current, but they have plenty of shelter on the lava rock cave, and the chaetamorpha.
Hopefully I don't need to leave the filter on too long.
I removed the dead shrimpies, the dead snails, and chaetamorpha, and I am keeping an eye on the Marimo balls.... I am not certain if it's alive or dead.
Now it's a wait game....
At least the hair algae is not back.... But there is something toxic in that water I have to get rid of....
Well.... Aí that's is that...

[Carolina]

An update on both my tanks...
Tank #2 now houses my two nerite snails, which I have to move them as they were literally dying on tank #1. It took a while, but they finally are doing well.
I am adding bacteria everyday (seachem stability), as the tank wasn't cycled yet, and things continue to move along. There is now a thin layer of green algae on the substrate, and a healthy layer of biofilm on the lava rocks. Not sure how the chaetamorpha (from you) is doing..... It was very light, so I moved it to a place that's not directly under light and turned it upside down. We will see.
Tank #1....
Looking pretty disgusting, but doesn't seem to be toxic anymore.
The filter was too strong, so I added an extra layer of foam to the inside of the water intake tube, and now the shrimp are much more comfortable.
There is still a bag of purigen and one of carbon running, and they will run for a while.
All that brown gunk that was floating on the water seems to attached in the surfaces: on the substrate, lava rock (thick film trapping air bubbles), and on the walls.
The walls are creating green algae, which is interesting...
I scraped the front glass for visibility, and left the other three alone.... Will see what happens.
The surviving snails (from you) are getting BIG!
The shrimp seem to be doing better now. Hermie molted and for my surprise he survived, so good news on the water.
We will see how things progress now.
I think it's been well over a month I have been cycling tank #2.... Hope things will be OK with it. Bacteria was added, but aside from that, nothing. It looks great.

[Carolina]

Ok - I decided to post some pictures because at this point I am at a total and complete loss!

As you know, I re-scaped tank #1, removed all hair algae (it hasn't been back), and transferred the shrimp and snails that were on tank #2 (with that brown cloud from hell) into it.
Lo and behold, a couple of days later..... There is the cloud on Tank #1!!!

I wait.... The cloud gets bigger and bigger.
I come back from a trip to several dead shrimp, dead snails, barely surviving nerites (the big ones, the small all died), and both chaetamorpha dead as well.
There was a THICK layer of goop on the top of the tank, and the water was brown.

I decided to put a filter with Purigen and Carbon.
Here is what is going on now -

I cleaned this front glass last night - it's already 1/2 taken by algae this afternoon!


It seems that all that brown gunk descended into the rocks, plants, substrate..... Here is a top view of my not so red anymore lava rock. These air bubbles are THICK and hard to pop!


Side view of the glass - it's all taken by algae now. This tanks hasn't been fed since january, has been through a re-scaping, and major water change.


Trust me.... it looks way worse in person :/


This kettle-bone was sparkling white - just to illustrate what's going on here...


A better view of the gunk


I have bought chaetamorpha over and over again, only to have them die in a matter of days. So now I only use them from my LFS. The Marimo ball and the Algae ball from here are surviving.
I have NO clue what this is..... I know this came from the other tank as it is the same thing I had there, and this tank never had this problem.... But I am at a complete loss..... It's like a monster inside a tank!

Now on to better news -

Tank #2 -


As you can see, there is a nice little layer of algae growing on the substrate


Unsure about the chaetamorpha. It is not as bright as this picture. The bottom is completely white. I turned upside-down and removed from direct light - I have quite powerful lights... Hopefully it will survive.


Good amount of film on the rocks....


And algae starting to be seen on the glass....


So..... Those are my tanks.... yin/yang type of deal, huh?

[Carolina]

And.... I already have an update.... Reducing the filtration rate/current was not good. This brown whatever it is reproduces at an alarming rate, and in a matter of a day, I noticed a shrimp getting sick... I had to remove one of the sponge plugs from inside the intake and in addition I added a Second bag of purigen. I know it's overkill.... But...
At this point I am thinking of a way to transferring these shrimpies to the new tank, but not this brown cloud.
Not sure if it's possible.... Maybe quarantine them in a small tank for a week or so before transferring them over?

[hardware_failure]

I dont have much exp with brackish tanks yet (do have a bit with freshwater)

It looks like you have too many nutrients and lights on for too long.

Mustafa is right that you cant grow things on light alone, but it certainly appears that you have enuff biological... "stuff" in there for things to use and then take advantage of lights.

On the first page you mentioned changing the light cycle from 12 to 10 to even 8 hrs. Sometimes even this is too much. If your lights are too bright you get too much growth of everything, and if they are not bright enough leaving them on for longer is the worst thing you can do. Plants (and some macro algae) need a proper repository cycle with lights off. When you leave them on past 8 hrs (I have found that often even just 6 is better) you only help algae and other muck out compete plants and plant like (macro) algae. I know this is pretty common knowledge among aquarists, but sometimes we overthink things. Very little of that "gunk" is gonna grow if it cant get the energy (light) that it needs.

Since theres way more than enough for shrimp/snails to eat I say go on a limited-only-4-hrs-on cycle for a while and see what that does.