question about Caridina Heterapoda and Minami shrimp
Moderator: Mustafa
question about Caridina Heterapoda and Minami shrimp
I am currently breeding both in separate tanks but I am noticing that these two species look very similar...I wonder if they are in fact the same species? There is not much info on these so called Minami shrimp online....anyone know?
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shrimpbaby
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I noticed that a lot of misinformation (in threads that I somehow missed or forgot to comment on) was given out by our forum member "edinjapan" in the past about Minaminuma Ebi (bad boy Ed! 
). He didn't do it out of malice obviously, but because he just didn't know. Although I did eventually comment on it in the past, here is the information once again just for the record:
Minaminuma Ebi = Neocaridina denticulata
Red Cherry Shrimp = Neocaridina denticulata sinensis (or N. heteropoda if the latest revision gains recognition)
It is NOT the wild form of the red cherry shrimp. Also, the "Minami" shrimp in circulation in the US may or may not be Neocaridina denticulata. More likely than not it's one of various Neocaridina spp. depending on the source of the "minami" in question. People just like to give a name to their unidentied shrimp and conveniently forget to mention that they have not really verified the species with anyone. After all "Minami" shrimp ought to sell better than "unidentified Neocaridina sp.", right?
Unless you went to Japan and caught your shrimp in a mountain creek in an unpopulated/sparsely populated area of Japan (for the relevance of this see below) or you received the shrimp from someone (a **reliable** source, usually not a importer/exporter/dealer) who has done that for you, then there is no way of knowing if you have Neocaridina denticulata short of killing a male and putting it under a microscope to compare it to its description in scientific literature.
Even if you got "minami" shrimp (it should actually be minaminuma shrimp) from Japan, it does not mean that you necessarily have Neocaridina denticulata. That's because of two reasons:
1. Just like elsewhere in the world, the Japanese hobbyists have tons of red cherry shrimp and also receive tons of other Neocaridina spp. as bycatches with deliveries of other shrimp from elsewhere in Asia. Since most hobbyists there also have problems telling various Neocaridina spp. apart, they tend to just call them all "Minaminuma." This especially applies to the wild colored Neocaridina spp.. And, as it has been happening with the various so-called "wild cherry" shrimp (which are NOT all wild red cherries) in the US, the various Neocaridina spp. (spp. = species (plural)) in Japan have been happily intermixing. So, getting a "minaminuma" shrimp from some guy in Japan does not mean that you actually received a "pure blood" Neocaridina denticulata.
2. Neocaridina denticulata sinensis has supposedly been introduced into Japan (I still have to verify this information) and has been spreading. If true, it may also have started crossbreeding with N. denticulata. Hence, shrimp caught "in the wild" near population centers in Japan (which usually have shrimp hobbyists, too) may be hybrids due to people releasing various Neocaridina spp. into the local rivers.
I've been observing the careless use of "Minami shrimp" in the US for a while now. I have not commented much on it since I thought that the problem might just disappear after a while, but it's obviously spreading. I hope that the above information finally clarifies the issue.
My suggestion, as I already mentioned above, is to NOT call your shrimp "minami shrimp" (which is already wrong as the real N. denticulata is called "minaminuma" in Japan...ebi = shrimp) unless you can verify that you actually have Neocaridina denticulata. And even if you have such verification and want to use their Japanese name, you should call it "Minaminuma shrimp."
If one does not follow the aboe suggestion, one is misleading oneself and others. We want to make a step forward in the hobby, not two steps back. I remember a time not too long ago when giving out vague, unverified (mis)information was the norm and not the exception. Let's not go there again.
). He didn't do it out of malice obviously, but because he just didn't know. Although I did eventually comment on it in the past, here is the information once again just for the record: Minaminuma Ebi = Neocaridina denticulata
Red Cherry Shrimp = Neocaridina denticulata sinensis (or N. heteropoda if the latest revision gains recognition)
It is NOT the wild form of the red cherry shrimp. Also, the "Minami" shrimp in circulation in the US may or may not be Neocaridina denticulata. More likely than not it's one of various Neocaridina spp. depending on the source of the "minami" in question. People just like to give a name to their unidentied shrimp and conveniently forget to mention that they have not really verified the species with anyone. After all "Minami" shrimp ought to sell better than "unidentified Neocaridina sp.", right?
Unless you went to Japan and caught your shrimp in a mountain creek in an unpopulated/sparsely populated area of Japan (for the relevance of this see below) or you received the shrimp from someone (a **reliable** source, usually not a importer/exporter/dealer) who has done that for you, then there is no way of knowing if you have Neocaridina denticulata short of killing a male and putting it under a microscope to compare it to its description in scientific literature.
Even if you got "minami" shrimp (it should actually be minaminuma shrimp) from Japan, it does not mean that you necessarily have Neocaridina denticulata. That's because of two reasons:
1. Just like elsewhere in the world, the Japanese hobbyists have tons of red cherry shrimp and also receive tons of other Neocaridina spp. as bycatches with deliveries of other shrimp from elsewhere in Asia. Since most hobbyists there also have problems telling various Neocaridina spp. apart, they tend to just call them all "Minaminuma." This especially applies to the wild colored Neocaridina spp.. And, as it has been happening with the various so-called "wild cherry" shrimp (which are NOT all wild red cherries) in the US, the various Neocaridina spp. (spp. = species (plural)) in Japan have been happily intermixing. So, getting a "minaminuma" shrimp from some guy in Japan does not mean that you actually received a "pure blood" Neocaridina denticulata.
2. Neocaridina denticulata sinensis has supposedly been introduced into Japan (I still have to verify this information) and has been spreading. If true, it may also have started crossbreeding with N. denticulata. Hence, shrimp caught "in the wild" near population centers in Japan (which usually have shrimp hobbyists, too) may be hybrids due to people releasing various Neocaridina spp. into the local rivers.
I've been observing the careless use of "Minami shrimp" in the US for a while now. I have not commented much on it since I thought that the problem might just disappear after a while, but it's obviously spreading. I hope that the above information finally clarifies the issue.
My suggestion, as I already mentioned above, is to NOT call your shrimp "minami shrimp" (which is already wrong as the real N. denticulata is called "minaminuma" in Japan...ebi = shrimp) unless you can verify that you actually have Neocaridina denticulata. And even if you have such verification and want to use their Japanese name, you should call it "Minaminuma shrimp."
If one does not follow the aboe suggestion, one is misleading oneself and others. We want to make a step forward in the hobby, not two steps back. I remember a time not too long ago when giving out vague, unverified (mis)information was the norm and not the exception. Let's not go there again.
ok so here is my other question.....on multiple websites the RCS is coming up as 2 different species.....Neocaridina Heteropoda var red and Neocraidina Denticulata var red.......is this a mistake or are they the same? Also, if the RCS is Neocaridina Denticulata var red and the wild form of RCS should be just Denticulata correct? Which if I read your earlier post correctly, thats what you said the Minaminumba was, right? Which would make Heteropoda a different species correct? The only issue I see with this is that other pictures I have seen of wild RCS, the shrimp are mostly brown in color and sometimes called natty browns...maybe those are mislabelled?
heteropoda = red cherry shrimp = N. denticulata sinensis var redchiahead wrote:thank you for the great explaination on the Minami shrimp......ok so what exactly is caridina heterapoda then? My web search was finding red cherry shrimp and the wild cherry shrimp...so, I am confused
the wild form of rcs is N. denticulata sinensis (not N Denticulata)
