Breeding...AFRICAN VAMPIRE SHRIMP???
Moderator: Mustafa
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- Tiny Shrimp
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:14 am
- Location: Twin Cities Minnesota
Breeding...AFRICAN VAMPIRE SHRIMP???
I am currently embarking on a little adventure in breeding amano shrimp. In nature they live in rivers which flow into the ocean. We must try to replicate that cycle to breed them at home, which can be a lot of work.
I did a little research on my african vampire shrimp and found VERY little info on breeding them, other than it doesn't seem to have been done by hobbyists and about all we know is that they also need either brackish or saltwater to complete their life cycle and survive to adulthood. Then, a little 10 watt light bulb lit up in my head and I wondered if they have an identical or very similar cycle to amano shrimp. I would like to try breeding them, but the problem is where do you find the females? I have heard they don't have the large "vampire" front legs and so aren't often seen for sale.
I won't even ask if anyone has successfully bred them, but I WILL ask if anyone has seen any females for sale? Anyone?
-Aphyosemion
I did a little research on my african vampire shrimp and found VERY little info on breeding them, other than it doesn't seem to have been done by hobbyists and about all we know is that they also need either brackish or saltwater to complete their life cycle and survive to adulthood. Then, a little 10 watt light bulb lit up in my head and I wondered if they have an identical or very similar cycle to amano shrimp. I would like to try breeding them, but the problem is where do you find the females? I have heard they don't have the large "vampire" front legs and so aren't often seen for sale.
I won't even ask if anyone has successfully bred them, but I WILL ask if anyone has seen any females for sale? Anyone?
-Aphyosemion
Hi Aphyosemion,
Caridina japonica are not in any way special when it comes to their life-cycle. Most shrimp that do not hatch as (almost) fully developed min-shrimp in pure freshwater have to go thorugh larval states in waters with some considerable degree of salt. So, yes, you can try the Amano breeding method on all the other shrimp that have the same life-cycle.
I have right now some Macrobrachium larvae floating around in my little experimental breeding setup at around 24 ppt (=g/liter) salinity. I've had them in there for over a week now. However, as you can see I am not using full strength sea-water. I don't anticipate any problems because of my salinity. The only problem I am anticipating is that I am leaving town next week and my wife will forget to feed them or feed them too much (and pollute the water) or feed them too little (and starve them). But hopefully things work out just fine.
The question on the necessity of full stregth sea water is still out. Even among Caridina japonica there are reports that indicate breeding success at less than full salinity. It's always pretty high salinity (17 ppt) and above, though. There are several German language breeding reports out there in which breeding at 17 ppt salinity is puported. I would not be surprised if some other factor than salinity was the reason why some people were not successful at less than full salinity and others were. In my opinion 17 ppt should work just as well as 35ppt since the larvae float around in different salinites in nature anyway. To be able to quickly move into freshwaters (or die!!) after they become benthic postlarvae, the floating larvae have to be close to river deltas, where the salinity can vary tremendously..especially after heavy rains. The larvae of andronomous shrimp should be used to that. That's why shrimp farms that breed Macrobrachium rosenbergii only use 12-14 ppt salinity to raise the larvae until they become postlarvae. I am sure higher salinities work just fine, too, though.
In any case...I babbled way too much again...LOL. Back to your questions. I have *never* seen any vampire shrimp for sale in NYC personally, but you are right that usually more males than females are imported because the males have those huge legs. So it will be hard to locate a female. There should be some coming in from Africa once in a while, though, since some shipments only have 1-2 inch juveniles which look all the same....male or female. In the meantime, why don't you just go get some Atyopsis moluccensis, which are almost identical to Atya in behavior and life cycle? Females are usually available for that species.
Let us know hor your project goes.
Mustafa
Caridina japonica are not in any way special when it comes to their life-cycle. Most shrimp that do not hatch as (almost) fully developed min-shrimp in pure freshwater have to go thorugh larval states in waters with some considerable degree of salt. So, yes, you can try the Amano breeding method on all the other shrimp that have the same life-cycle.
I have right now some Macrobrachium larvae floating around in my little experimental breeding setup at around 24 ppt (=g/liter) salinity. I've had them in there for over a week now. However, as you can see I am not using full strength sea-water. I don't anticipate any problems because of my salinity. The only problem I am anticipating is that I am leaving town next week and my wife will forget to feed them or feed them too much (and pollute the water) or feed them too little (and starve them). But hopefully things work out just fine.
The question on the necessity of full stregth sea water is still out. Even among Caridina japonica there are reports that indicate breeding success at less than full salinity. It's always pretty high salinity (17 ppt) and above, though. There are several German language breeding reports out there in which breeding at 17 ppt salinity is puported. I would not be surprised if some other factor than salinity was the reason why some people were not successful at less than full salinity and others were. In my opinion 17 ppt should work just as well as 35ppt since the larvae float around in different salinites in nature anyway. To be able to quickly move into freshwaters (or die!!) after they become benthic postlarvae, the floating larvae have to be close to river deltas, where the salinity can vary tremendously..especially after heavy rains. The larvae of andronomous shrimp should be used to that. That's why shrimp farms that breed Macrobrachium rosenbergii only use 12-14 ppt salinity to raise the larvae until they become postlarvae. I am sure higher salinities work just fine, too, though.
In any case...I babbled way too much again...LOL. Back to your questions. I have *never* seen any vampire shrimp for sale in NYC personally, but you are right that usually more males than females are imported because the males have those huge legs. So it will be hard to locate a female. There should be some coming in from Africa once in a while, though, since some shipments only have 1-2 inch juveniles which look all the same....male or female. In the meantime, why don't you just go get some Atyopsis moluccensis, which are almost identical to Atya in behavior and life cycle? Females are usually available for that species.
Let us know hor your project goes.
Mustafa
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- Tiny Shrimp
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:14 am
- Location: Twin Cities Minnesota
I will just have to keep my eyes peeled for a couple of females. I already have 2 males that are doing great in my 75 gallon planted tank and have been there for months now. As an extremely large shrimp (compared to most others) that is completely harmless and infinately fascinating, I think they are worth the effort of breeding. Given that I paid $20 for each of mine, it could also be profitable, though that is not really a consideration on my part. I would have to have an awful lot of them before I would sell any.
As for the amano shrimp, I think Mike had said in his article that less than full strength saltwater didn't work for him. It makes sense that they would need to survive in varying salinities since they would likely be near the mouth of a freshwater river, so I can believe that full strength saltwater might not be necessary, at least. I will see how well it works for me before deciding whether lower salinities might be worth trying.
-Aphyosemion
As for the amano shrimp, I think Mike had said in his article that less than full strength saltwater didn't work for him. It makes sense that they would need to survive in varying salinities since they would likely be near the mouth of a freshwater river, so I can believe that full strength saltwater might not be necessary, at least. I will see how well it works for me before deciding whether lower salinities might be worth trying.
-Aphyosemion
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- Tiny Shrimp
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- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:20 pm
I know this is an old old old topic (I searched for "vampire breeding" and got 2 results ), but I'm thinking of attempting to breed vampire shrimp as well.
Soon I'll have about 10 of them coming in the mail (both males and females as far as I know... I haven't gotten a response yet on that). I have some extra tanks and such so I figured what the heck.
I was going to use the Amano shrimp method... but it occurred to me that there might be a difference in the way they feed.
Does anyone know if the shrimp only grow their fans after the metamorphosis? Do the larvae feed the same way as any other shrimp larvae might?
It seems to make sense that they would... since the fans are an evolutionary development based on the location they end up in... the oceanic stage might have nothing to do with their future needs. I have no idea.
Mustafa, I also noticed that according to your site you're still interested in breeding them. Since you have more experience maybe it would make sense for me to ship half of these shrimp to you and you can give it a try as well. I'm planning on buying some tiger shrimp at some point, so that could make a good trade.
Soon I'll have about 10 of them coming in the mail (both males and females as far as I know... I haven't gotten a response yet on that). I have some extra tanks and such so I figured what the heck.
I was going to use the Amano shrimp method... but it occurred to me that there might be a difference in the way they feed.
Does anyone know if the shrimp only grow their fans after the metamorphosis? Do the larvae feed the same way as any other shrimp larvae might?
It seems to make sense that they would... since the fans are an evolutionary development based on the location they end up in... the oceanic stage might have nothing to do with their future needs. I have no idea.
Mustafa, I also noticed that according to your site you're still interested in breeding them. Since you have more experience maybe it would make sense for me to ship half of these shrimp to you and you can give it a try as well. I'm planning on buying some tiger shrimp at some point, so that could make a good trade.
- badflash
- Master Shrimp Nut
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I've been reading up and plan to try to breed Bambood and amanos. I got to almost a month with the amono before the project went bust.
The larva of filter feeders do not have filters and do not get them until the go post larval. 2nd hand info, but I think it is pretty solid.
Many shrimp need brackish water of 1/2 strength or less. I think bamboos and vampires will likely respond to the method used for breeding M. Rosenbergii. Around 13 ppt salt water. Green water for the first few days, then any sort of food they can bump into and eat while they grow. It need to be sized to the size of the larva and they need to eat at least 3 times a day. The diet of larva and the diet of adults is not related. Larva tend to be more primative so can eat many foods. An egg custard made from eggs and powered milk is what the Rosenbergii like. There is also a product called "golden pearls" that come in various sizes that may work.
The larva of filter feeders do not have filters and do not get them until the go post larval. 2nd hand info, but I think it is pretty solid.
Many shrimp need brackish water of 1/2 strength or less. I think bamboos and vampires will likely respond to the method used for breeding M. Rosenbergii. Around 13 ppt salt water. Green water for the first few days, then any sort of food they can bump into and eat while they grow. It need to be sized to the size of the larva and they need to eat at least 3 times a day. The diet of larva and the diet of adults is not related. Larva tend to be more primative so can eat many foods. An egg custard made from eggs and powered milk is what the Rosenbergii like. There is also a product called "golden pearls" that come in various sizes that may work.
- Shrimpmania
- Shrimp
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- Tiny Shrimp
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- Tiny Shrimp
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By fangs I meant the very tips... I thought I had read somewhere the females didn't have them, but wasn't sure I remembered it right.
Looking at their legs now I do see that some of them must be female. Fewer than I'd hoped... that's why it wasn't noticeable. That's a shame.
Thanks for the info. Now to figure out how to encourage the breeding process.
Looking at their legs now I do see that some of them must be female. Fewer than I'd hoped... that's why it wasn't noticeable. That's a shame.
Thanks for the info. Now to figure out how to encourage the breeding process.
keep us posted, I'm very interested. I have two vamps also. The LFS guy believes color indicates sex in the juvies but I don't really believe it. Nevertheless they sold me one blue (a beootiful aqua) and one pale pink vamp, they are about 2.5 inches and have moulted twice. Thought I lost pinkie after this last moult but he's rebounded. Each time they moult their colors get stronger, I thought they would start going darker but not so far.
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- Larva
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Hello all I have these shrimp and have noticed the younger ones seem to be the pink color and seem to get allot darker with age since my older ones are a dark grey color. The one thing I think makes these guys the happiest is water changes they really get exited about it probably because of all the food particles they can feed on. I have at least one female I was converting larva from her to saltwater when I discovered having hydra which ate all the larva very sad but it gave me time to prepare for the next batch which I read somewere could be as many as 4 months between egg release and egg carrying so anyway I know have amano larva I hope to get to adults the atya larva look the same as the amano larva so I assume they feed the same way through the water column well good luck and let us know on your progress I suggest live food and water changes to stimulate spawning
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- Tiny Shrimp
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- Larva
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- Tiny Shrimp
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- Tiny Shrimp
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