How much food is just the right amount?

algae · Post by **algae** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:58 pm

In a planted 10g I have about a dozen adult red cherry shrimp and three or four dozen babies and juveniles, along with two spixi snails, a dozen dime size red ramshorns and bunches of little pond snails (which I'm trying to eliminate, one at a time). Also, one panda cory and two cherry barbs.
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Lately I've noticed planaria in the filter sponge, (but not in the tank proper). I assume that I'm overfeeding.
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I usually feed twice a day with Hikari crab cuisine pellets, a little Sweetwater Zooplankton (mornings only), some veggie or kelp flake, and/or a little fish flake. I usually put a peeled broccoli stalk in once a week (blanched), and sometimes a piece of veggie round.
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I also have a heavily-planted 20g with fewer shrimp, but more fish, along with a variety of snails. I use the same foods, just a little more.
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So, given this variety of food, how should I guage the amount that I feed every day? Should I feed only once? Should I fast them for a day or two once in a while, or use different foods on different days? And how much difference should there be between the two tanks?
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I know there are several questions here. But with the wealth of info on various aspects of aquarium management that's available on-line, the subject of feeding is rarely discussed in detail. I just can't seem to get a feel for it, so I'd appreciate hearing your methods.

nathan515 · Post by **nathan515** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:18 pm

Well, the way I do it is that I just feed a certain amount until I find that the there are left over food that aren't eaten, the next day I just put a little less. With cherry shrimps you can boil vegetables which wont dirty your tank much if you take it out in a day or so. I think that maybe your 10g aquarium is a little too crowded and I would probably advise getting a bigger more roomier one. There are a few posts that have relations to planaria, which I believe came with the plants you've purchased or something.

WHenever I see the food gets left there too long I just sweep it into my filter, after a day or so.

Well this is all I can say as I'm pretty inexperienced myself and all of this comes more or less from the experience I have a couple of years ago and the recent days in the past since I got my shrimps. Good day to you.

algae · Post by **algae** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:50 pm

Hi, and thanks for the reply.
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With regards to over crowding, I've heard many shrimpers say that they keep a hundred or more red cherries in a 10g. I'm not anywhere near that in shrimp population (but hoping). The snails are the next most populous group, but they're mosly small and clean constantly, (unlike fish which just eat and eliminate). I think the inhabitant numbers are o.k., but I'm worried about the food levels, and making sure that the different species still get what they need.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:03 am

I'd say you are way overfeeding. Forget the Hikari crab cuisine pellets, Sweetwater Zooplankton and the fish flakes. Cherries don't need it as they are vegetarians. If this is for the other guys fine, but you are overfeeding, so cut way back. Pond snail explosions are also symtoms of overfeeding.

Cherries need something with the primary ingredient as algae like spirulina. Kelp may be OK, but it a marine food.

If you have planaria in your filter they are in your substate too. The filter is a good trap, so keep cleaning it regularly to get them.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:48 am

I have 3 amanos and they love floating pellets.....I pop 3 tiny pellets in and they start running about the substrate and trying to find the food. Then one at a time they check out what's going on near the waterline.....they slowly approach the pellet then BAM....they swoop at it really fast and swim away holding a pellet.
I like seeing them do this....I imagine they might do this in the wild and it makes feeding time a bit different. They like sinking foods too but less effort is required for them to find it.

My cherries are a little less adventurous and haven't tried the pellets yet.

I would feed your tanks less if you have planaria and use a gravel vac on the substrate and check your filter for clogging, clean it in water drawn out of your tank and do a water change.

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:14 am

I have been reading so much conflicting information about feeding shrimp.

Some say that they should only eat algae and do not need high protein fish food. Others say to feed often and some say to feed very rarely. I've even found some people saying that they don't even feed their shrimp at all! The main danger I have read about is that some fish foods contain copper. About half of the ones I keep in the house do, so I will be careful.

I think I will put a sliver of algae wafer in every couple days and see how that goes.

I've only had my shrimp a few days now. They are in a tank with MTS and red ramshorn snails.

One thing I tried yesterday was to put an algae covered rock from another tank into my shrimp tank. After half a day, it was completely picked clean. I suspect that this might be one of the best ways to feed them without the danger of polluting the water.

My nitrates are at 10ppm. I am a little concerned that they should be lower but I also read that people keep them at higher nitrate levels, so I am going to hold off on a water change for now since they are new to my tank and I don't want to stress them too much right off.

algae · Post by **algae** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:34 am

YuccaPatrol said:

I have been reading so much conflicting information about feeding shrimp.

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My point exactly. I specifically went looking for the Hikari crab cuisine because of the many, many posts that I've read all over the net suggesting it for shrimp.
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With regards to vacuuming the sustrate to eliminate planaria, I'm afraid to vacuum now, because there are so many baby cherries in the tank. I use a small net to scoop up pond snails, and I always have to first check carefully for shrimp in the net. How about Malaysian Trumpet snails to clean the substrate? I've avoided them up until now because I was told they would get out of control. But would they be effective against the planaria?

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:26 pm

If you have planaria, then you are most likely feeding too much. This happened to me with fish when my wife and I both thought the other was not feeding the fish.

I do like the malaysian trumpet snails. You may never actually be able to get rid of them once you have them, but I can't think of a reason not to have them. They make a great clean-up crew since they get down into the substrate, they never eat your plants, and they take care of any excess food if you do feed a little much.

I pick the large ones out of the tank and crush them. My loaches love them.

If you remove large ones regularly, you won't be completely over-run with them. I also put them in my filters and it is amazing how well they clean the mechanical filter media. Since putting them in my filters, I go a LOT longer before I have to do any filter maintenance.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:16 pm

Algae IS high protien, it is just veggie based. Check the tag on the can. My spirulina flakes have 40% crude protien while the shrimp pellets have 38%. They don't call these guys algae eating shrimp for nothing. While they may eat meat based flakes if they must, their natural diet is mostly algae. I powder my flakes so I can put just a little pinch in at a time. The dust settles on the plants and the shrimp can clean the plants as is their natural behavior. Chunks of food make it so the big guys eat and the little guys don't, then the worms come out and the next thing is clumps of snails.

There are many shrimp that eat meat, so maybe that is where the confusion comes from. Macrobrachium often love meat as do many of the Palaemonetes species. You need to read up on the shrimp you are raising.

Here is what happens if you overfeed or feed with the wrong stuff. At first they feed like crazy and even have lots of babies, then you see one dead shrimp, then another, and pretty soon you are out of shrimp. If you need to vacuum the bottom in an agae eating shrimp aquarium, you are really overfeeding. There things aren't goldfish, they are tiny shrimp. Unless you have a bazillion of them, they just don't eat much.

Smart people learn from their own mistakes. Really smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:51 pm

If you don't mind I would love that line as my signature

Smart people learn from their own mistakes. Really smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

It's the best way to think with aquaria.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:04 pm

I didn't make it up. I just believe it. Feel free to steal with pride.

carbon etc · Post by **carbon etc** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:13 pm

*looks at his stocked up bags of Hikari Crab Cuisine for his cherry shrimp*

Well, crap.

Now I know why they seem to swarm over the algae wafers more.

Post by **Mustafa** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:45 pm

I just wanted to chime in to clarify some confusion here. Dwarf shrimp are detrivores in nature. That means that they are neither carnivores nor vegetarians. As detrivores they eat decaying organic matter. This organic matter is mostly of plant origin, but it can also be animal matter once in a while (i.e. they find a rotting dead animal and eat it). As this organic matter is decaying it is colonized by tons of bacteria, fungus and other microorganisms. So, as the shrimp are ingesting this organic matter they are also ingesting these microorganisms. THAT is the perfect food for shrimp. Algae alone is not enough and feeding commercially prepared fish foods is also not the right choice in the long run. Algae does not have enough nutritional value to keep shrimp alive in the long run. Spirulina is not really algae but cyanobacteria.

Now to commercially prepared foods. It does not matter if it says "algae wafer" (which don't have any algae at all actually but just some minute amount, usually less than 5%, of spirulina....the rest is just what all other fish foods have mixed in in one way or another) or "crab cuisine" or "invertebrate food" or whatever...they are *all* not appropriate as the sole food for dwarf shrimp. They all have "attractants" mixed in which keep the animals interested and eating, although they are actually "full." That's why things like badflash described happen. Your shrimp eat and eat and eat...reproduce like crazy and just when you think that you are successful with your shrimp your population crashes. Because your shrimp eat way too much of the "wrong" things they get sick and die. That's in addition to the much worsened water quality due to the high feeding rate.

Having said that, you can still feed your shrimp with commercial prepared foods if you have a small shrimp population, a large tank and feed very sparingly. This works only because a small shrimp population will always find enough "natural" food (i.e. decaying organic matter) in a large enough aquarium. Hence the little amount of commercial food that you give them is not the sole food they are getting, but is rather a small part. Once your shrimp population grows, the shrimp eat up all the available "natural food" in the tank and then solely rely on the commercial food you give them. That's when the problems usually start.

So, the advice in my article is still valid. Feed *very* sparingly (only enough that they can eat within a few minutes) and give your shrimp enough room so they can find their natural food items. That's when your shrimp will show their best colors and will live healthily and happily for a long time.

Hope this helps.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:04 pm

I've yet to find a feed that is pure algae, but I look for food that is primarily plant based with fish meal way down on the list. Having living plants and dead Oak leaves, etc. in the tank helps as well. The molts are also a natural place for the bacteria, so don't be a clean freak.

In general, if you have brown at the bottom, you are overfeeding.

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:35 pm

I have read all the above posts, but am left alittle confused

I guess the ideal situaion is that shrimps are kept in large tanks where algae can grow naturally. But what if some shrimp, such as CRS, are kept in small tanks? They would soon eat all the available algae - what should be offered as a complete food for them? Boiled cumcumber? Algae wafers?