nitrate reduction

[JayD976]

do you think it would be beneficial to put nitrate absorbing pads in my filters for my shrimp tank? (non-planted tank)

[Shrimp&Snails]

Water changes remove nitrate. Is your tap water is high in nitrate?

I couldn't tell you if these nitrate removing pads are shrimp safe or not but personally I wouldn't use them.

[alanhermel]

Follow the link:
http://aquaripure.com/
They make a denitrator the removes ALL the nitrate.
I've used one for more than a year, it works.

[YuccaPatrol]

I won't say that denitrators aren't effective, because they definitely work.

However, nitrate is only one of countless chemical compounds that we remove when we do our water changes. Living organisms produce a very wide range of other waste products which we can simplify and describe as DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbons). These chemicals can also have a negative effect on water quality and the health of our livestock. Testing for nitrates is a good indicator of the accumulation of DOC's which cannot so easily be tested in the home aquarium.

Denitrators are great as long as you realize that an accumulation of other compounds still needs to be addressed.

Back to the original question: I would avoid the use of nitrate absorbing chemicals unless there was an emergency situation that required their use. Good maintenance and regular water changes should be all that is necessary to keep the water quality suitable for shrimp.

[zapisto]

Back to the original question: I would avoid the use of nitrate absorbing chemicals unless there was an emergency situation that required their use. Good maintenance and regular water changes should be all that is necessary to keep the water quality suitable for shrimp.

i am so agree with that

[JayD976]

i do water changes on all my tanks weekly. i ask because right now im holding my shimp in a small 2gal which we all know the smaller the tank the harder it is to control water quality. i just tested it an its at 10ppm.

[YuccaPatrol]

My personal goal is to keep nitrates below 10ppm and I would get very concerned if it is 20ppm or higher.

But I know that planted tank gurus purposefully dose nitrate higher than that and also have success with shrimp.

I would not be concerned with 10ppm nitrate enough to start monkeying around with chemicals to control it.

[badflash]

Amquel+ and Seachem Prime both eliminate Nitrates. At your level water changes using these will do the trick, then stop using ferts, if you are, or check your water supply. The only other source I know of is over feeding.

[JayD976]

no ferts as there are no plants. i use seachem prime on all my tanks

[shrimping]

Amquel+ and Seachem Prime both eliminate Nitrates. At your level water changes using these will do the trick, then stop using ferts, if you are, or check your water supply. The only other source I know of is over feeding.

I don't think seachem prime removes nitrates...

[Shrimp&Snails]

Amquel+ and Seachem Prime both eliminate Nitrates. At your level water changes using these will do the trick, then stop using ferts, if you are, or check your water supply. The only other source I know of is over feeding.

I don't think seachem prime removes nitrates...

According to their site it does....

http://www.seachem.com/products/product ... Prime.html

[Mustafa]

According to their site it does....

http://www.seachem.com/products/product ... Prime.html

In my opinion that's all just marketing hype not backed up by any real research or proof. I am using seachem prime and it does NOT reduce nitrates at all nor does it detoxify it. Amquel+ doesn't either. If the nitrates get too high the shrimp lose coloration, stop eating and start dying off, regardless of prime or amquel+. In fact, overdosing any of these products in an attempt to "reduce" nitrates is likely to be harmful to the shrimp.

The only method of removing nitrates that really works are frequent water changes. The larger your tank and the less you OVERfeed the lower your nitrates. Even faster growing plants like Najas cannot keep up with overstocking and overfeeding.

Adding something into a closed system (Aquarium) to "remove" or "detoxify" something else sounds great but it does not work. I find it funny that companies claim their products detoxify nitrates when there is not even enough research about the toxicity of nitrate to fish and absolutely no research (that I am aware of) about the toxicity of nitrate to shrimp.

I absolutely love seachem prime for its inteded purpose, which is to neutralize chlorine and chloramines, but most other claims are just marketing hype.

When in doubt, just do what sounds logical. When you want to remove something just physically remove it...i.e. you want to GET RID of nitrates IN THE WATER, just REMOVE the WATER WITH THE NITRATES in it and REPLACE it with WATER WITHOUT NITRATES. That's just common sense. Adding some chemical that supposedly does the job appeals to the lazy sides of our characters and that's exactly why companies use it as marketing. People prefer being lazy...that's just fact. Listen to your logical side and don't go for the hype.

By the way, the best level of nitrates for shrimp is 0 mg/l (=ppm). That level happens to be also what they have in their natural habitats. 5 mg/l and under is acceptable although water changes should be done to lower it, and over 5 mg/l is a serious concern and should be acted upon immediately.

I have yet to see a planted tank person who is dosing high nitrates and has a growing, thriving shrimp population. All the reports are just "I dose nitrates and my shrimp seem fine" or something similar to that. Trust me...nitrates are BAD for shrimp and ideally any trace of it should be removed by water changes. If very frequent water changes with 0 nitrate water (check your water source for nitrates and if it has nitrates get an RO unit) don't help much then that means that your tank is way overstocked.

I don't recommend any Nitrate removing "pads", "sponges" or "resins" or any other product that you put into your filter either as they are usually "ion-exchange" products, which means that they are replacing the nitrate with something else, in most cases salt. That's hardly something desirable in a shrimp tank.

I hope this clarified the nitrate issue a little bit.

[badflash]

I can't speak for Seachem Prime as I have not done any nitrate testing using it, but I can speak for Amquel+ as I did testing back in December when I had Nitrate and Phosphate issues. I tested my water and found I had about 90 ppm nitrates and 2000ppm phosphates. After 2 water changes of 50% using Amquel+ at the recommended dosage my phosphates were down to around 500 ppm, which is what I would have expected, but my Nitrates were no longer measuable. Simple dilution would have reduced it to ~ 25. I have to assume the rest was Amquel+

The bottle says that each dose will remove 13 ppm nitrates. It says so very specifically. If this is a lie this isn't hype, it would be fraud.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a BIG believer in regular water changes and do so every week, but I believe Amquel+ removed nitrates & nitrites as it says it does. What it turns them into, who knows?

[Mustafa]

The bottle says that each dose will remove 13 ppm nitrates. It says so very specifically. If this is a lie this isn't hype, it would be fraud.

It's always best to be skeptical about any outlandish claims which come from the company that makes the product. "Fraud" and "hype" are actually legally disputed terms, so what may seem like "fraud" to you may not be "fraud" in the eyes of the law, but just "grey area." Not ethical? For sure.... Illegal? Probably not. There are tons of products out there that claim all kinds of things which are not true. There is a software product on late night TV that is supposed to tell you how to trade in the stock market and make you rich. Is it true? Nope, it's nonsense. Do people still buy it? Yes, they do. Anything that sounds "easy" is marketable. Or take the "stress coat" or similar products with "Aloe Vera" that is supposed to help the fish with their slime coats and what not....you really think it works just because the company selling it says it does? How about all the products that are supposed to "cycle" your tank due to the "nitrifying" bacteria they contain? There are tons of reports out there on the internet that claim that they are worthless. Did snake oil sell well 100 years ago? Sure... Do these products sell well? Of course because people love hype and myths just so that don't have to work too hard and get everything the easy way. But do they really work? Nope. Not in my opinion and experience and in the opinions and experiences of many, many others who have been successful at keeping and breeding all kinds of fish and invertebrates, including large aquaculture facilities. One thing we all know for sure is that there is no shortcut. Water changes are the ONLY reliable way to safely remove dissolved organic matter (including nitrates) out of the water. Period.

So...in any case...you might want to read some opinions that contradict Novalek's (Amquel+ maker) claims (besides my opinion):

http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/month ... 00547.html

http://petsforum.com/aquascience/AmQuel+2.doc

These are just two contradicting documents but I am sure there are more out there. And if you think about it...it makes sense. Novalek does not tell you anything about HOW nitrates just magically disappear from the water. Novalek does not provide any data at all on the mechanism of nitrate removal. Absolutely nothing. The nitrates can't "evaporate", so IF Amquel+ does anything at all it would have to bind the nitrates to something to supposedly "detoxify" it. However, that still leaves the nitrates and the accompanying dissolved organic load in the water. Nitrate or not, dissolved organic matter is not good for shrimp in any form and needs to be taken out of the water. So...even IF Amquel+ works as advertised (which I don't think it does) it would still be useless in a shrimp tank as you would have to do frequent water changes anyway due to the high dissolved organic matter. This applies to fish, too, but shrimp are more sensitive in that regard.

And if you want to be pro-active and happen to know someone at a university lab or similar place, have a known, nitrate-rich water sample tested by that lab before and after adding amquel. You can do the same test at home, but to get halfways acceptable results you would have to buy various test kits from different companies. Just like liquid ph test kits, liquid nitrate test kits have a reputation of being inaccurate.

If Amquel+ really removed nitrates it would be the solution to all of our wastewater treatment problems. Wastewater treatment plants spend millions of dollars coming up with ways to remove large amounts of nitrates from the water and in the end they always end up coming up with solutions that require nature in the mix...i.e. denitrifying bacteria, plants...etc. I'm sure they would love to just throw some chemical in there and see the nitrates magically disappear. It just doesn't happen.

[badflash]

Very curious and very suspect. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Both reports are from the same source and they both cite a report paid for by an offended party. Doesn't mean it isn't true, just means it is suspect.

My own personal experience, as chronicled in this forum, is that prior to using Amquel+ I could not raise shrimp. True I had plenty of other issues as well with phosphate buffers, et. al. BUT, it seems to work for me.

As to Hype vs. Fraud, if you make specific claims in writing, and these claims are false and you know them to be false, at least in New York State, that is Fraud. I think the AG's office would be very interested. If not, mabe a new episode of Myth Busters?

I think I'll also take a sample of treated water with know nitrate level over to the chemistry department at my plant. I'll see what they come up with.