green rocket shrimp

[rocco]

Hi,
my name is Michael, and I am from Vienna, Austria.

I have been keeping shrimp for about the last 3 years, red crystal, red cherry, green shrimp (caridina cf. babaulti), bumblebee shrimp and even some marine shrimp in my 12 liter nanoreef...

On the whole I was successful in keeping, and with some species in breeding my shrimp (most of them were kept together with fish...)

Now I have the possibility to get hold of a group of those green rocket shrimp (green longnose shrimp? - some caridina species from india not yet scientifically identified), which have been discussed here before; but after searching this forum and the whole internet I still have no idea of the water parameters they would appreciate.

Is anybody here who has kept them successfully?
Do they prefer soft and acidic, or harder water with higher pH?

Very grateful for your help,

Michael

[Neonshrimp]

Michael, would you please post some pictures of this shrimp.

Thanks

[rocco]

Hi,

here is a previous thread about this shrimp, you can find some nice pictures in the second link...

Greetings
Michael

[wklotz]

Hi Michael!

The "Green Rocket Shrimp" is a very rare shrimp in ornamental shrimp trade. I myself got only two specimen of this species. One from Dietzenbach 3 years ago and one speciemen from Vienna a few weeks ago. According to the imprter this shrimp should derive from eastern India but probably this is incorrect because the morphological characters point to Indonesia as orgin. The morphological characters of this shrimp are very distinct, the shrimp belongs without any doubts to an undiscribed species of the genus Caridina.
It would to be of highest interest to get the real orging of this species.

Cheers
Werner

[sridharp77]

Hi,

Infact I managed to get some from the eastern part of India sometime back. But unfortunately none of them survived. So I am sure that they are available in eastern part. I got them along with the Pearl/sand Shrimp and the green shrimp. In that lot only some pearl shrimp and green shrimp survived. I did click some photos of them, but I am not sure whether they are green rocket shrimp, but the person who sold the shrimp to me referred them as green rocket shrimp. But they were different in shape from the green shrimp that I got from him. I plan to get more from him after I settle down in my new house.

Regards,

Sridhar.P

[rocco]

Hi Werner and sridharp77,

thanks a lot for your information; if sridharp77 is right, and this species lives together with Macrobrachium cf. mirabile, should I avoid soft, acidic water?

Anyway, I will order some, and keep you informed whether I will succeed in keeping them alive...

Michael

@werner: I sent you a pm, gruß aus wien ;o)

[Mustafa]

I've had these shrimp before, but as was pointed out already they usually arrive in the worst condition possible. These shrimp are in fact imported to the US from Calcutta. The exporter in Calcutta only ships wild-caught animals (fish and shrimp) and does not import to export again (as is the case with many places in Singapore and Malaysia), so it's probably safe to assume that they occur in that area. I have also talked to someone who catches them there and he confirmed that they are actually from India. He said that they come from the same type of water conditions as the "green" shrimp and other indian shrimp. In their natural habitats the PH is in the high 8s and even low 9s...i.e. very high. However, I have found that Indian shrimp are very adaptable and do not need such high ph values in captivity. They should all do fine in dechlorinated tap water.

I have also seen shrimp from Indonesia that look either identical or at least very similar to these shrimp. They were imported as "stone shrimp." So, it is possible that this species, or close relatives, actually has a wider distribution than just in India.

It would be nice to establish these shrimp in captivity, but for that we need to get our hands on *healthy* shrimp in very good shape. I don't see any reason why these shrimp could not be bred in captivity if healthy breeding stock is available. If all else fails I'll just have to go to India to catch some myself.

[rocco]

Hi Mustafa,

thanks a lot for the information!
As the green shrimp Caridina cf. babaulti is the species I kept most successfully in my (former) small mixed tank I will perhaps try the same conditions: Viennese tap water (gH 8, kH 6), and the pH wherever it will go - in that tank it sometimes went below 6 due to masses of trumpet snails, I guess...
Didn't stop the green shrimps from breeding

Michael

[wklotz]

Hi Mustafa!

Thanks for your comments an information!

These shrimp are in fact imported to the US from Calcutta.

A heard this too. But the morphological characters (well I know your opinion about morphology but maybe Kristina von Rintelen or Tim Page could include some material from my two scpecimen of this species in their oncomming phylogenetic cascade of atyid shrimps) are the same as in some species from Sulawesi (i.e. the branchial formula).

I have also seen shrimp from Indonesia that look either identical or at least very similar to these shrimp.

The Green Rocket Shrimp is showing some affinities to C. lanceolata (from central lakes of Sulawesi) and C. brevicarpalis (a wide distributed coastal species in Indonesia) but also share some characters with the Green Dwarf Shrimp C. cf. babaulti.
A very intresting new species!

Cheers
Werner

[Mustafa]

Hello Werner,

But the morphological characters are the same as in some species from Sulawesi (i.e. the branchial formula).

Sulawesi is exactly where these "stone shrimp" are imported from. If the shrimp from India and Sulawesi are indeed closely related or even subspecies...then that would mean that this species is truly ancient. Due to the fact that this species reproduces only in freshwater (i.e. no saltwater larvae are produced), they cannot spread, i.e. enlarge their range/distribution, as easily as other shrimp species with saltwater larvae. The area north of Calcutta and Sulawesi are very far apart and have not been anywhere near each other probably tens of millions of years. If these two shrimp varieties are in fact the same or similar species, then it would be an indicator that at least some shrimp do not change much over long periods of time.

but also share some characters with the Green Dwarf Shrimp C. cf. babaulti.
A very intresting new species!

It is indeed a very interesting species. The whole "green dwarf shrimp" problem has not really been resolved either. Now that you mention it...I have had at least 3 different varieties of "green dwarf shrimp" that are most likely different species or subspecies. The one that I had first are the animals that you see in the shrimp varieties page. Very elongated, streamlined body, very long rostrum, a lighter green coloration and pretty much all of my females had a bright white line on their backs. This shrimp seems to be pretty rare, actually, which I did not realize at that time (and my population got destroyed last summer during my "big disaster"). The second variety I had was also green, but a darker green color, smaller stockier body, relatively short rostrum, no line going down the back. These guys also changed color depending on the substrate they were sitting on. For example on red lava, they would actually turn red. The first variety of green shrimp (with the big white line on the back) never changed color, unless they were sick and about to die. Unfortunately, this second variety also died off last summer during my "big disaster."

I just recently acquired, what I believe to be a third variety of green shrimp. This variety is also darker green, like the second variety, also stocky roboust body, larger than the second variety, rostrum is medium long to long, no white stripe on the back and, interestingly, they have orange edges to their tails. The males appear with a bunch of blue spots on photographs. The spots are hard to see in real life since they are very small. Here are some photographs of this last variety (first two are female, last one is male):







I highly doubt that these species/varieties can interbreed, especially not the first one with the last two. In my opinion, there is really a lot of work to do to identify these different shrimp varieties. To the untrained eye, they might even all look the same. Hence, when people talk about "green dwarf shrimp" they might actually be talking about several different species/subspecies without even realizing it. In the next few years I will try to get my hands on the first two varieties of green shrimp again and then try to get as many other varieties of "green shrimp" as possible to figure out their relationships by performing crossbreeding experiments (of course only after establishing large enough captive breeding colonies of the various "green shrimp" first).

You would understand my problems with classical morphological descriptions of shrimp (And the resulting "species") if you had done some of the experiments I have already performed. For, example, most, if not all, of the various shrimp species lumped together as Caridina cf. babaulti an erroneously lumped together as "Caridina babaulti (without the "cf.") on Chris' website do not interbreed despite their morphological similarities. Heck...some of them even produce saltwater larvae!

Anyway, there is still a lot of work to be done, and I am personally looking forward to being part of it all.

Take care,
Mustafa

[AnneRiceBowl]

What a neat little shrimp! I noticed the females have a sort of mohawk out of little spikes.

[Neonshrimp]

I noticed the females have a sort of mohawk out of little spikes.

Actually, several of the shrimp,both dwarf and macros, have that look. I think it looks sharp

[wklotz]

Hi Mustafa!

Sulawesi is exactly where these "stone shrimp" are imported from. If the shrimp from India and Sulawesi are indeed closely related or even subspecies...then that would mean that this species is truly ancient. Due to the fact that this species reproduces only in freshwater (i.e. no saltwater larvae are produced), they cannot spread, i.e. enlarge their range/distribution, as easily as other shrimp species with saltwater larvae. The area north of Calcutta and Sulawesi are very far apart and have not been anywhere near each other probably tens of millions of years. If these two shrimp varieties are in fact the same or similar species, then it would be an indicator that at least some shrimp do not change much over long periods of time.

Full aggreement. That´s why the green rocktet shrimp is of high interest for me. If I get a exact locality and some fresh or good prepared material from this species Kristina von Rintelen or Tim Page can make some genetical comparison of this species with the shrimp they collected in the ancient lakes of Sulawesi.

It is indeed a very interesting species. The whole "green dwarf shrimp" problem has not really been resolved either. Now that you mention it...I have had at least 3 different varieties of "green dwarf shrimp" that are most likely different species or subspecies.

All right. There are at least 4 different green colored Dwarf Shrimp known from India which are so close related that they are hard to differentiate on morphological basis (at least in non- ovigerous females or males) but this 4 species are different in larval development (and also there are some minor differences in egg size).
And non of the "Green Shrimp" in the pet shops are cheked for this two characters.
But also the identity of C. babulti Bouvier remains unclear (as I wrote on: http://www.wirbellose.de/klotz/babaulti.html due because the type series of Bouvier without much doubt contains more than one species.
There´s a lot of work to do...

Cheers
Werner

[Mustafa]

Hi Werner!

If I get a exact locality and some fresh or good prepared material from this species Kristina von Rintelen or Tim Page can make some genetical comparison of this species with the shrimp they collected in the ancient lakes of Sulawesi.

Yes, that would be great. I did not know know that the "stone shrimp" from Sulawesi actually occured in one (or several?) of the lakes. I thought it was from one of the rivers. I'm sure the next few years will bring some clarity on the relationship between this shrimp and the one from India. If both are indeed the same or closely related shrimp, that would be a zoological sensation.

But also the identity of C. babulti Bouvier remains unclear (as I wrote on: http://www.wirbellose.de/klotz/babaulti.html due because the type series of Bouvier without much doubt contains more than one species.
There´s a lot of work to do...

Yep...TONS of work to do. Considering that our old "shrimp scientists" sometimes used several species to describe one species or used only one or two individuals to describe a species (and then possibly another 1-2 individuals of the SAME, but morphologically diverse, species to describe it as "another species"), one can imagine that they got a whole bunch of things wrong. Maybe the establishment of a shrimp hobby will give reason for young scientists to get interested in freshwater shrimp and resolve the whole mess with modern, genetic analysis *and* live pictures.

[Neonshrimp]

Maybe the establishment of a shrimp hobby will give reason for young scientists to get interested in freshwater shrimp and resolve the whole mess with modern, genetic analysis *and* live pictures.

You are right Mustafa, an eager young grad student who takes on the project as their thesis could do wonders for shrimp taxonomy (naming and classifying) .