Red cherry shrimp set-up

shrimper Bob · Post by **shrimper Bob** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:11 am

Hello fellow shrimpers.
My first experience with RCS gave me second thoughts about keeping shrimp too. I ordered 5 RCS from a well known supplier, paid almost 6$ a shrimp and almost $50 for overnight shipping. I lost one shrimp the first night. They where older shrimp and colored up very nicely. That's when I found this site, my fascination with these tiny creatures grew to point that I had to try again. I won 50 on EBAY for $50 and paid $14 for 2 day shipping. They arrived in a breather bag about the size of a baseball with no air. I was amazed, all alive and healthy. It's been 3 weeks now and my colony is thriving. Larry, if I can do it I'm sure you will have success.
Bob B

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:16 am

I just gave them another feeding. This time, I strained out the pods and daphnia since those are starting to look a bit scarce in the culture tank. The shrimp didn't show the same gusto as before, but I'm sure they will enjoy the rots and cilliates. I honestly think the stimulus I saw before was caused by the pods. I haven't seen them chasing daphnia, only feeding when they're nearby. The pods on the other hand are blatantly hunted to extinction. Looks like I'm going to have to set up 3-4 more cultures just to keep their favorite food around

Larry

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:00 am

Powered veggie flakes and small amounts of cooked greens are mine's favorite. The 'pods grow well on the left overs.

Search the forum for the name of that supplier. I'll bet you'll find they have a lot of problems with shrimp.

Express shipping is not needed with most shrimp or crays. As a matter of fact I have a friend in China that just got some crays that took a week to arrive and all are fine. The condition of the animals before they are shipped is the key factor.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:23 am

I'm considering dropping a small piece of green bean in there to see if the shrimp will eat it. I've seen others, keeping much larger tanks, that have done this and the shrimp seemed to enjoy it. I know that the pods are attracted to it.

Larry Vires

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:44 pm

Hello! =) I'm new here.

I have a tips of a good food for shrimps: JBL NovoPrawn and AquaticNature Shrimps Excel. We use these two granulates with good results in Sweden.
Maybe it's not avalible outside our contry, but if you know what I mean, it's a good food

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:45 pm

They realy don't need special food, at least cherries don't. Crushed spirulina flake works really well.

Be carefull with beans as they can foul the water. If you have big snails that clean up left-overs it can work, otherwise you need to watch and fish it out.

Cooked dandelion works great.

Post by **Mustafa** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:41 am

Larry,

Sorry to read about your initial bad experiences. What the guy told you about shrimp getting "frisky" in new water is nonsense. Shrimp only swim around restlessly as you described if they don't like something in your water. Most people report that their shrimp "get excited" because they dump chlorinated water into their tanks during water changes. Since those water changes are not large, it's enough chlorine to irritate the shrimp but not enough to kill them. So the shrimp swim around until the chlorine dissipates and/or gets broken down by bacteria or other natural processes.

Having other invertebrates survive in the same tank is not always a good indicator of shrimp survival, either. For example, I have had copepods survive and do well for weeks in water that had 5 ppm (I believe that they can take ammonia levels that are a lot higher). No shrimp would make it in such a tank. Daphnid species can also survive and even reproduce at very high ammonia levels. The following paper reports survival and reproduction of daphnids at 25ppm (= mg/l):

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14850071

Our shrimp, on the other hand, start dying off (one by one) at ammonia levels that are a fraction of 1 ppm (and hence not measurable by our home test kits). Such low, sustained ammonia levels can be a problem especially in newly established tanks (even if you squeeze a filter into it). Such levels would never bother a fish by the way.

Having said that, the best invertebrates that I have found as "test animals" for a shrimp tank are Physa/Physella sp. ("pond snails") and ramshorn snails. They seem to be about as sensitive to most things in the water as shrimp. If these snails survive *and* reproduce, then the tank should be ready for shrimp, too.

Good luck with everything! Don't give up yet, this hobby (shrimp hobby) is interesting, fascinating and challenging. You will enjoy it a lot in the long run. You have not even scratched the surface....

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:27 am

Not to worry, I don't quit that easy. I still have about a dozen cherries from this shipment and they seem to be doing decently. I'm still finding the occasional dead shrimp, but the deaths have at least slowed down. I've decided that if this tank does crash, and I have to start over, I am going to put together a small central system, ~9 tanks, In that way, I can put the same filters on them that I would use for pleco breeding tanks, and know with certainty that there are absolutely no toxins. My other racks occasionally spike to 50 ppm nitrate, but that is because of special breeding concerns with some of the rarer plecos and heavy feedings. Maintaining lower levels shouldn't be too much hassle as a constant.

Larry Vires

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Fri May 04, 2007 6:13 pm

Hello all,

Just a quick update. I just finished checking the cherry tank, and removing the corpses, and there are still 14 cherries in there doing well. I seriously doubt these deaths being my fault, because I now have my first berried female. I tried to take a few pics, but they are all very blurry. I don't have any experience taking photos of shrimp yet, but can say that it's more difficult than getting a clear pic inside a pleco tube. Of course, I've got 18 years experience with that. This is still new, and that's what makes it fun!

Larry Vires

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:42 pm

Hello again,

This time I have another question. While looking at the shrimp tank, I noticed another female that has developed eggs in her ovaries. I know that shrimp mate shortly after a molt, but have no idea how often a healthy red cherry shrimp molts. I am going under the assumption at this point that whatever caused my earlier deaths has ran its course. That may be wrong, but all the shrimp are definitely eating and acting more like I would expect shrimp to behave. Anyway, how often do cherries molt as an average?

Thanks,

Larry Vires

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:07 pm

It probaly depends on a number of factors such as food, age, temp and even the photo period.

TKD

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:17 am

My experience with them is that when the female is ready to berry up she will molt. That is when the eggs will move to he swimmerlets. When she is ready to molt she will usually go intohiding and you'll see the males zooming around the tank looking for her.

If you have the conditions right, the female will show a saddle while still in berry, and will molt and berry up again within a week or so of dropping the babies.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Hi pleco_breeder,
Have your new RCS stabilized yet? The survivors acting OK and all, I hope.

I was setting up more tanks for them today and took some from a tank that has five Juvenile F1 L46 in them . I don't see them very often yet but I guess they are all doing OK. Seeing them made me think of you and your recent experiences. One thing I really did not notice before was your TDS meaurement of over 800ppm. It struck me as rather high maybe because my tapwater is usually about 120 ppm.
I was wondering if this was something that was quite a bit different than what your new shrimp had been raised in? It might be that this was a large enough change to have been a stressor that was too much for some of the shrimp to handle. I would imagine that once they begin to reproduce the high mineral content could contribute to very good growth rates as they certainly would not be lacking from minerals the exoskeletons are made of.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:04 pm

Apisto,

I've never lived in a place that had that low TDS from the tap. While in Indiana, the TDS ranged about 450. Here, I have to dilute it with RO to get that measurement. It tends to bounce between 1200 to 1500 ppm.

I've only found 1 dead since the last count, so things are settling in a bit. Sadly, it was the female that had just began developing an egg saddle. The other large female is still carrying her spawn, and hopefully will be for the next 3+ weeks.

I do think I'm getting the hang of feeding these. Dropped a 1/4 inch piece of green bean in there 2 days ago, and it started fungusing rather quickly. I pulled it within the hour, but won't be doing that again till I know that there are enough shrimp to eat it rather quickly. On a positive note, there is an amazing bounty of live "goodies" established on the moss, and I've all but stopped feeding till the population gets large enough to control that. I check the lighter colored shrimp at least twice a day to be sure that their stomachs are full. This doesn't guarantee that they are getting the proper nutrition, but I'd rather feed too little than have to worry about crashing the small population that has seemingly adapted to the tank.

Larry Vires

Post by **Mustafa** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:25 pm

Hi Larry,

pleco_breeder wrote: Here, I have to dilute it with RO to get that measurement. It tends to bounce between 1200 to 1500 ppm.

Hmmm...that's strange. According to the water quality report for your area you're supposed to only have between 304 (lowest value measured) and 812 (highest value measured) ppm TDS (with the average somewhere in the middle). Unless you're on some kind of private well water I would contact the city to see what's going on. Of course I would check my TDS meter first to see if it does not malfunction and/or needs calibration. I've lived in several cities in the US and the water quality reports have always been accurate about TDS and other values. Here in San Diego I just measured about 500 ppm TDS (and San Diego is supposed to have some of the "hardest" water in the country). In NYC I had about 40-50 ppm TDS. The EPA recommendation is to stay below 500 ppm.

On a positive note, there is an amazing bounty of live "goodies" established on the moss, and I've all but stopped feeding till the population gets large enough to control that.

Good idea.

This doesn't guarantee that they are getting the proper nutrition, but I'd rather feed too little than have to worry about crashing the small population that has seemingly adapted to the tank.

Good idea again! You'll know if they are "read to be fed" if they start storming the food within seconds. If they show no interest, then don't feed and don't worry about them not getting enough food. In a well established tank they always get enough food to get by.