How long does it take for a RCS to molt?

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:28 pm

It may be hard to do, but don't stress over one shrimp. What will be will be. Enjoy them while you have them and do the best you can. If it is only one, it isn't you.

Suzie Q · Post by **Suzie Q** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:31 pm

Beast1961 wrote:Thanks for the picts Suzie..Wish my camera took such nice pictures, I have a Canon PowerShot A75...It was a hand me down from ma'ma...An Ebay queen.

Well all I can do is wait now till my babies start to grow-up and hopefully become daddies. The good thing is I'll know they came from two different gene pools. I swear I spend 4-6 hours a day just sitting and watching them...That's not counting the maintanance.

Talk to ya soon,
Rick

Rick,
Welcome to the Shrimp obsession! I tend to stare at my tank for hrs on end.

My camera is a Canon Rebel XT. I still want a macro lens for it, but the 150g that I am saving for is a little more important right now!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:31 pm

Well, you definitely have a male although the extra red one is probably a female.

The proper use of the slime containing water conditioner does not account for the lack of reproduction. It would take more than that to explain why your otherwise healthy shrimp are not reproducing. I'm at a loss as to what that might be. Even if you only happened to have one male there should be many fertile eggs as they do get around.

I would not know how to stop them from multiplying as they only continue to become established throughout my tanks much the way snails and Duckweed spread. Sorry I have run out of ideas.

Suzie Q · Post by **Suzie Q** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:44 pm

The only other thing I can think of that I did "to" the tank, was to add a freshwater flounder...it was labeled as a scavanger, and was in the tank for about 3 weeks then it up and disappeared...I think it died (this was the first one I have ever had, and I could not find any feeding info on it...I crushed betta pellets and shrimp pellets up for it, and had the leaf litter and fish flakes, but I never saw it eat)...then about 2 weeks after the flounder went MIA, I housed the SAE and 5-2week old betta fry for a week and a half while I was on vacation...the shrimp had been in the tank alone for 2 months prier to that w/o reproducing...they are now a RCS only tank again, and will stay that way...hopefully it was just the stress of the fish that kept them from breeding...I don't know!

Thanks for the help and suggestions...I will keep you guys posted on any berried females or babies that I hopefully will have!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:36 pm

None of the fish or other things you've described as previous tankmates explains why at least a few babies haven't appeared.

The most common freshwater flounders are more brackish water than pure fresh water. Your's was probably the species native to Florida that makes appearances in freshwater rivers but largely lives within an estuarian biotope.
I only know of one truely freshwater species that inhabits the Amazon and Orinoco drainages but they are very rarely available. Price alone separates the two. If one can afford them they are the native variety; the Neotropicals would cost a lot. They are almost exclusive feeders on live foods. That is why most die shortly after purchase.

If shrimp were hatching and adults are thriving then the shrimplets would also make it. One thing that might help is to try feeding small amounts of microwrms. I have found that both the adults and young feed on them well. It isn't a big deal but something that does give the larvae some added foods to include in their diet.

Have you ever just tried to plunge a hydrovac quickly and deeply into the thickets of the Java Moss and then examining th water siphoned out closely for tiny shrimp?

pixl8r · Post by **pixl8r** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:23 am

Or just take a turkey baster and squirt water into the java moss. That should be able to expose the infant shrimp, if they're in there.

Personally, I'd check the water health, and let it sit undisturbed (aside from the health inspections) for a month or so. If there's sufficient leaf litter, stop feeding for the month too.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:47 am

pixl8r wrote:Or just take a turkey baster and squirt water into the java moss. That should be able to expose the infant shrimp, if they're in there.

Personally, I'd check the water health, and let it sit undisturbed (aside from the health inspections) for a month or so. If there's sufficient leaf litter, stop feeding for the month too.

For some reason, SuizeQ, your shrimp problem is frustrating for me, although I'm sure it is far more so for you.
I totally agree with the advice to check your water again but I think it's still going to be fine. I am more likely to try frequent small water changes and feed normally unless you rely on leaf litter. I do not use leaf litter, I have two shrimp tanks set up with about 1.5 inches of substrate and heavy growth of Hornwort that pump out incredible numbers of shrimp. Each is a ten gallon tank set up with an AquaClear 200 HOB power filter with sponge prefilters over the inlets. At any given moment there may be as many as 75 or more shrimp feeding on the sponges and innumerable shrimps thoughout the grass and on the bottom.
I also have success with bare bottom tanks, simple sponge filter, with little plant growth and almost all food must be added to support the shrimp. Many of these are also fry grow out tanks for various killies, Corys and some Asian Rummy Nose fry plus my Dwarf Corydoras breeding tanks. C. hastatus and C. habrosus. The shrimp become problematic because they grow, reproduce and crowd out the fish. All my tanks get a minimum of 50% water changes twice a week. The water tests with electronic meters indicate a pH of 7.4 and TDS of ~340 ppm. Using color tests this equates to a GH of ~6-7 degrees. pH still 7.4.
Perhaps all you need is a new group of young shrimp because it makes no sense that yours have been otherwise thriving and not reproducing. It still seems as if there is not enough mating going on which still leads me to think that the shrimp have become too old or lack enough males to make sure they are breeding. I easily have just as many males as females assuring their are always ready partners. Males are very competive and will compete with each other to mate with a ready female. Many animals need this sort of activity to stimulate the breeding urge. There really is a "snowball" effect. The more shrimp you have the more shrimp you will have. Regular water changes promote growth, shedding and then mating. I am not sure why just basically doing nothing would turn things around and meanwhile the shrimp are getting older. I am convinced that part of successful shrimp breeding is the early start of breeding which begins at very small and young stage. It may be that trying to breed older shrimp late in life that have not been producing may be a limiting factor in their ability to breed. A shrimp is old at a relatively early age. They can begin breeding at somewhere around the 8TH week of life.

Suzie Q · Post by **Suzie Q** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:10 am

I will do ALL the advice given!

I am addicted to these shrimp, and watch the tank all the time...I have not seen any berried shrimp at all...but some have hidden in the Java Fern for long periods of time...the Java Moss is not real thick yet...it is attached to the multi-colored rock. I have Twainan Moss attached to the Maylasion? wood piece.

I have 2x used fert (one that has NO copper in it and then Flourish), but I see NO difference when I do and when I don't. I have also used DIY co2, but had a 6hr power outage, and got scared and removed it...that was 2months before I added the flounder (I will not get another one...well, maybe a fake one and "hide" it in the substrate) heehee!

Yes, this is very frustrating...well, more dissappointing than anything...I see on all the forums I am on that just weeks/months after getting juvies (which my first 2 batches were), they had babies...I just want to cry! My goal is to have CRS and breed them, but if I can not get the EASY ones to breed, I have no chance at the harder ones.

I did have a young Ghost shrimp berry (not breeding those though), but lost her shortly after that, and I have successfully raised GS fry...so I am just so confused.

Please keep trying to come up with solutions...I am so appreciative of you guys! I can tear down this tank and start over if I have to.

....I have a 5.5g at work that has about 13 new-hatched Betta fry (I can breed hard to breed fish, but not easy shrimp...go figure), Eco-Complete, Java Moss (same type rock), 1 sprig of hornwart in there, Java Moss/Fern, and a few fake plants soon to be remove...not heavy planted at all...I thought about maybe putting 2 female/2 male in there and just let them "have at it"...I change about 1g daily (even come in on weekends to change the water), so "overcrowding" will not be a problem...any suggestions/thoughts/comments on this?...yes...no...more females?...more males?

EDIT:
Just did the turkey baster...no babies in the Java Fern...I will test the water again tomorrow...how much/how often is "frequent" water changes? I change 3g every Friday.

Cactus Bastard · Post by **Cactus Bastard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:52 am

I believe I'm having the same problem you had - what looks like a molting problem. I saw one that was missing a section last night, and then found her dead several hours later. I then noticed several others that looked very similar, and one in particular was really missing a lot of shell.

Was it just that single shrimp that you had this happen to? Or did you see other shrimp with this problem too?

Suzie Q · Post by **Suzie Q** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:29 am

Cactus Bastard wrote:I believe I'm having the same problem you had - what looks like a molting problem. I saw one that was missing a section last night, and then found her dead several hours later. I then noticed several others that looked very similar, and one in particular was really missing a lot of shell.

Was it just that single shrimp that you had this happen to? Or did you see other shrimp with this problem too?

Just the one...I am watching the others VERY closely, but I do think one of the SAE did this to her...there is nothing else in the tank that could have. I hope your shrimp get better. I hated loosing 1 shrimp. Mine looked like the shell had been broken apart, not a missing section though. My shrimp lived for about a week or so like this. I probably should have removed her from the tank, but she may have still been doomed to die because of this injury...I am still new at shrimp, so anything that happens will be new to me.

List all the tank mates (if any)...these guys are great!

EDIT (copy from Cactus Bastards Thread):
That does look a lot like what mine did...only the "head" portion was raised...is this some new disease? I did not have GS or Amanos.

Is there any way to combind these threads? They seem so close to the same topic (except that my RCS are not reproducing, though I don't think it is related to the injury).

Decor in MY tank...Sponge filter, corner filter (the blue kind), multi-colored rock with Java Moss (moss attached with sewing thread..pretty tight)..the thread may have cut her, but I think it is to tight to get under...I will remove it today as the Java should be attached enough by now..Maylain? wood "chip" with Twainan Moss (attached w/rubberband)...again, I can remove..., "green" rock (can not get anything to attach to it..to smooth I guess).

Plants...Java Moss, Java Fern, Naja, Rotala, Cabombia?, small/tiny Lace Fern, Twainan Moss..seems like I am forgetting one.

Could the shrimp have gotten caught in the roots of one of these plants and struggled to get free?...of course that does not explain Cactus Bastard's several shrimp having simular problems.

Cactus Bastard · Post by **Cactus Bastard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:42 am

I think collaborating is a good idea. My theory is that your problem was the same as mine, but then your S.A.Es did some additional damage where the shrimp was missing her shell? Either that or yours advanced further than mine?

The other possibility is that your shrimp was simply injured by something, and it's got nothing to do with my problems at all.

My tank is fairly simple, a canister filter with foam over the inlet, and an air powered foam filter (just recently added). There is a clump of java moss, some plastic plants and ornaments, and several pieces of natural sea sponge. Substrate is black sand, and water conditions are very similar to your own.
I've had these shrimp for two weeks now, and have several mature females, but none have become berried as of yet.

Cactus Bastard · Post by **Cactus Bastard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:46 am

Another possibility, since we were both using the same brand of water conditioner, maybe something in their slimecoating can cause difficulties for shrimp when they molt?

Since my shrimp were juveniles and growing rapidly / molting frequently, maybe that's why I have several at once? Or I could have other contributing factors in my tank too.

How often do adult shrimp molt btw?

Cactus Bastard · Post by **Cactus Bastard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:29 am

When I was looking at them last night, I thought about 6 more of my shrimp were developing the same problem, as it looked like their shell had just begun to crack. But then I realized the "crack" I was noticing was visible in lots of other people's photos as well. Here's a good example:

So I think the problem isn't quite as big as I had previously imagined. There are still at least two shrimp who have a pronounced gap, but hopefully the rest of my shrimp are still healthy after all...

Suzie Q · Post by **Suzie Q** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Cactus Bastard wrote:Another possibility, since we were both using the same brand of water conditioner, maybe something in their slimecoating can cause difficulties for shrimp when they molt?

Since my shrimp were juveniles and growing rapidly / molting frequently, maybe that's why I have several at once? Or I could have other contributing factors in my tank too.

How often do adult shrimp molt btw?

My juvies molted 1x a week, then slowed to about 2x a month. I just found another successful molt. All are seeming fine...no injuries. I will continue to watch them like a hawk though. I have another water change due tomorrow...I am going to let the tank set for another week and see if that helps with "reproduction, REPRODUCTION"...sorry, GREASE (the movie) just came to mind (ok, so I'm tired LOL).

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:04 pm

Cactus
The Gap that you see in Mustafa's picture is the seperation of the exoskelton. You could say this is where the Shrimp is jointed.
And this is where, the shrimp will pop out of its skin, when it molts.

Suzie Q
If a Adult RCS female does not have a saddled or carrying eggs all of the time, she is not happy
If the shrimp do not like the water they are in , they will not breed, they will not carry eggs, they may not even have a saddle.

The multi-colored rock or the piece of wood may be leaching something into the water .

I myself have never seen the problem you are having and I do not use any of the chemicals listed in this thread, so I can not say if they are the cause.

You may want to try and remove the rock & Wood and see if this helps.

You should not have a problem with older shrimp breeding or if you have just a few males.

I have had just 1 male with 10 females and he had his work cut for himself, but I still had breeding and offspring.

John