Hello all, I am new to discussion boards and just learned my first lesson. "Save draft" before "Submit", screen must have timed out. Here is a synopsis of my lost post. I have kept Supershrimp for about 2 years, currently I have a 20 gallon aquarium as my main tank. These guys and gals just swim and reproduce. A 10 gallon that is my nursery, and assorted small aquariums ranging from a quart to 2 gallons. All of them are doing fine. All of them began as purchases from Petshrimp.
In January 2017 I decided to start another 10 gallon aquarium.
Purchased entire new aquarium and sand late January 2017.
Water from home RO unit, treated with Seachem Prime.
Sponge filter, rock and sea fan from established aquarium.
Fully cycled using some fish food and debris squeezed from the sponge filter of a well-established aquarium, also used Seachem “Seed”.
Began adding shrimp every few days starting 3.15.17.
April 27, removed all my current shrimp and added 100 new shrimp and 30 snails.
I was very diligent setting up this new aquarium wanting to avoid any mistakes, because I had a problem last fall when a new shipment had died out.
All was well for about a week. Then I started noticing strange behavior. There was an excessive molt, they would lie on their side but are alive, some would thrash, some appeared trapped in their molt, then some started swimming up to the surface and free fall down. Others would continuously swim through the bubble stream from the filter.
I am a nerd.
Because of my problem last fall, I set out to gather as much information as possible, so I saved the shipping water and tested it. My thought process was to compare it against my own water. The water from the shrimp bags tested a little elevated, whereas the snail water was closer to ideal. I did not find this unreasonable and attributed it to travel stress and the higher activity level of the shrimp.
One theory why my shrimp are distressed, the stress from travel and then a new aquarium is just too much. Maybe I should acclimate the new shrimp slowly?
Water parameters where good at the addition of the new shrimp. Even today as I removed about 30 dead shrimp the ammonia was only slightly elevated above 0, but definitely not as high as 0.25.
I searched the symptoms of my shrimp online and some of their symptoms matched "osmotic stress " which can be caused by KH and GH levels. This is not something I test, and honestly I couldn't find any information as to where these levels should be in a brackish aquarium.
Has anyone had this happen to them? Thoughts, advice and insight would be much appreciated.
Where shrimp come to die....
Moderator: Mustafa
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Are you saying you added over a 100 shrimp all at once? That could be the cause of some of the issues. That is from what I've read even if a tank is cycled that doesn't mean it can handle a sudden huge increase in bioload (it could overwhelm the good bacteria and it takes time for them to increase their numbers to compensate). The individual shrimp have a very small bioload of course, but a 100 all at once may have just been too much.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Yes, I added them all at once. I would not think twice about adding 10 shrimp to a gallon of water, it is a 10 gallon tank, my thought was there would be enough volume of water, bacteria and algae to offset the amount of shrimp. Thoughts?
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KenCotigirl
- Senior Shrimp Master
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:46 am
- Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Please forgive me. Please explain this comment "April 27, removed all my current shrimp and added 100 new shrimp and 30 snails."
Are you losing 30 shrimp a day?
What brand of salt did you use?
KenP
Are you losing 30 shrimp a day?
What brand of salt did you use?
KenP
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
After the tank cycled I added a few shrimp for observation to the newly prepared 10 gallon tank. Then added more shrimp every week to build the bio-filter balance. When the new shrimp arrived, I removed the current inhabitants, (about 30 shrimp,) so that the only shrimp in the new tank were the new shipment of 100 shrimp and 30 snails.
No, I am not losing 30 per day, It just so happens yesterday I scooped out 30. Last Thursday May 11, it was 10.
Because some of them are lying on the bottom, they appear dead until they are disturbed. At which point they thrash about or move their swimmer legs. I leave them and hope they recover.
I am using Instant Ocean Sea Salt.
Attached is a photo. Shrimp on the rock look normal. The one on the ground closest to the front is alive. The one behind him is dead. The dead one shows something I have not seen prior. Look at his body/shell, it appears to be "opened"?
No, I am not losing 30 per day, It just so happens yesterday I scooped out 30. Last Thursday May 11, it was 10.
Because some of them are lying on the bottom, they appear dead until they are disturbed. At which point they thrash about or move their swimmer legs. I leave them and hope they recover.
I am using Instant Ocean Sea Salt.
Attached is a photo. Shrimp on the rock look normal. The one on the ground closest to the front is alive. The one behind him is dead. The dead one shows something I have not seen prior. Look at his body/shell, it appears to be "opened"?
- Attachments
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Re: Where shrimp come to die....
I just added 180 additional Opae Ula, all at once, to a 9 gallon sphere May 10th.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hi Ace,
Was this a new setup?
Is this something you have done previously?
How are your shrimp acting so far?
Was this a new setup?
Is this something you have done previously?
How are your shrimp acting so far?
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KenCotigirl
- Senior Shrimp Master
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:46 am
- Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Any current losses in your other tanks? Is your new tank next to your others or it by itself? Were you recently using cleaning products? Do you have dogs or cats that you treat for ticks.
KenP
KenP
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KenCotigirl
- Senior Shrimp Master
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:46 am
- Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Any current losses in your other tanks? Is your new tank next to your others or it by itself? Were you recently using cleaning products? Do you have dogs or cats that you treat for ticks.
KenP
KenP
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hello TeriAnn,
I am so sorry for your losses. I recommend total abandonment of that habitat and everything in it. Move everybody to the new container right away and don't use anything from the contaminated habitat. Obviously there is something very wrong there.
No. "Nanosphere 9" has been going all year. I just increased the population %200 because I was never content with the amount that I had. I have not done this previously and everybody is really active.
Even though shrimp have a very low bioload, I did use bacteria to boost the bacteria colonies for the new residents.
I am so sorry for your losses. I recommend total abandonment of that habitat and everything in it. Move everybody to the new container right away and don't use anything from the contaminated habitat. Obviously there is something very wrong there.
No. "Nanosphere 9" has been going all year. I just increased the population %200 because I was never content with the amount that I had. I have not done this previously and everybody is really active.
Even though shrimp have a very low bioload, I did use bacteria to boost the bacteria colonies for the new residents.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hi Ken,
No, every other tank is doing good, from the smallest quart size to the 20 gallon.
All of them are in the same room. The "death tank" is placed right next to the other two big aquariums, so they share the same environment. The 20 does have a heater in it, but none of the others have one.
There are no cleaning products used in here, except a Lysol wipe on my desk. With the exception of the bathrooms, the entire office area is cleaned with Norwex (An antibacterial microfiber cloth with embedded silver). Only I clean my particular office.
No dogs or cats, just shrimp.
No, every other tank is doing good, from the smallest quart size to the 20 gallon.
All of them are in the same room. The "death tank" is placed right next to the other two big aquariums, so they share the same environment. The 20 does have a heater in it, but none of the others have one.
There are no cleaning products used in here, except a Lysol wipe on my desk. With the exception of the bathrooms, the entire office area is cleaned with Norwex (An antibacterial microfiber cloth with embedded silver). Only I clean my particular office.
No dogs or cats, just shrimp.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hello Ace,
Thank you for your condolences and advice, but I can't do that. You see, I had a die off last fall. I could not isolate the problem so I scrapped everything involved. Similar scenario. New shipment, new vase. Water, sand and decor taken from my established 20 gallon. I assumed with cycled water and sand the environment would have the elements needed and should be stable. Apparently, it wasn't. I was advised cycled water is not enough, the entire environment including the enclosure must cycle together.
This aquarium is "take two". There is a serious factor missing, something I did, or did not do. A level to test? A conditioning additive? I am just hoping someone here can help me pick apart my processes so that this never happens again.
"Nanosphere 9" sounds intriguing. I can't say I have ever seen a 9 gallon sphere. I have two spheres here that are about two gallons, but they were not as clear as I would like so I converted one into a moss garden. Was just given another that is crystal clear, once this mystery is solved I hope to turn it into something spectacular. Both times that I have had my shrimp die, it began around day 10 and two weeks in, things were spiraling out of control. You are at day 9, I in no way am an authority but watch 9 close.
What do you use for bacteria?
Thank you for your condolences and advice, but I can't do that. You see, I had a die off last fall. I could not isolate the problem so I scrapped everything involved. Similar scenario. New shipment, new vase. Water, sand and decor taken from my established 20 gallon. I assumed with cycled water and sand the environment would have the elements needed and should be stable. Apparently, it wasn't. I was advised cycled water is not enough, the entire environment including the enclosure must cycle together.
This aquarium is "take two". There is a serious factor missing, something I did, or did not do. A level to test? A conditioning additive? I am just hoping someone here can help me pick apart my processes so that this never happens again.
"Nanosphere 9" sounds intriguing. I can't say I have ever seen a 9 gallon sphere. I have two spheres here that are about two gallons, but they were not as clear as I would like so I converted one into a moss garden. Was just given another that is crystal clear, once this mystery is solved I hope to turn it into something spectacular. Both times that I have had my shrimp die, it began around day 10 and two weeks in, things were spiraling out of control. You are at day 9, I in no way am an authority but watch 9 close.
What do you use for bacteria?
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hi TeriAnn,
Looks like your shrimp are stress molting. I see classic signs of poisoning...ammonia or otherwise. I'd do a 90+ percent water change if possible. Also, how many shrimp did you add to "cycle" the tank before removing them?
Next time just don't use a sponge filter...don't use any food or any organic material to "cycle" anything. Just follow the instructions I wrote up to the "T". Supershrimp tanks don't go through a classical "cycle". People don't understand that. 100 shrimp in a 10 gallon should *not* cause a problem in an established tank. Also..what kind of substrate is that? Looks a bit suspiciously shiny.
Besides possibly pH (and kh, which determines pH), you don't need to worry about or test anything. No gh, no ammonia, no nitrate etc....not even salinity after the initial setup. Not sure what you mean by "shipping water was elevated". Elevated in what? Any of the parameters you mentioned usually have nothing to do with shrimp deaths...again with the possible exception of pH. If pH gets too low shrimp suffer and may die. I'm talking about below 7 pH for that to be a problem. Some substrates do lower pH over time, so that's a possibility.
Looks like your shrimp are stress molting. I see classic signs of poisoning...ammonia or otherwise. I'd do a 90+ percent water change if possible. Also, how many shrimp did you add to "cycle" the tank before removing them?
Next time just don't use a sponge filter...don't use any food or any organic material to "cycle" anything. Just follow the instructions I wrote up to the "T". Supershrimp tanks don't go through a classical "cycle". People don't understand that. 100 shrimp in a 10 gallon should *not* cause a problem in an established tank. Also..what kind of substrate is that? Looks a bit suspiciously shiny.
Besides possibly pH (and kh, which determines pH), you don't need to worry about or test anything. No gh, no ammonia, no nitrate etc....not even salinity after the initial setup. Not sure what you mean by "shipping water was elevated". Elevated in what? Any of the parameters you mentioned usually have nothing to do with shrimp deaths...again with the possible exception of pH. If pH gets too low shrimp suffer and may die. I'm talking about below 7 pH for that to be a problem. Some substrates do lower pH over time, so that's a possibility.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
I use Fluval Cycle but I don't believe it is necessary. People here seem to hate that I mention it. It's just some insurance for my peace of mind. I use no other products other than reverse osmosis water and Instant Ocean. I mix at half strength. I use aragonite sand in the sphere. That takes care of any buffering and balancing of the water parameters. I use no equipment. I don't even use a light.
I did notice a single shrimp yesterday swimming upward and then collapsing and sinking. It was thrashing around and then back up again and then sinking to the sand. I have not witnessed this behavior before.
You can see the 9 gallon sphere in another post titled: Nanosphere 9.
I did notice a single shrimp yesterday swimming upward and then collapsing and sinking. It was thrashing around and then back up again and then sinking to the sand. I have not witnessed this behavior before.
You can see the 9 gallon sphere in another post titled: Nanosphere 9.
Re: Where shrimp come to die....
Hi Mustafa,
Yes agreed, "something" is wrong. Ammonia is marginally high, between 0 and .25 right now. So I imagine its the "otherwise' I need to figure out. Question, If I do a 90% water change, won't that shock the shrimp even more? Wouldn't that be like placing them in an uncycled tank? Just trying to wrap my head around the process of "cycle". Prior to adding the 100 shrimp, I had about 30 shrimp in that tank.
The substrate is Carib Sea, Super Naturals. Tahitian Moon. The package says it is safe for saltwater.
My pH is always higher rather than lower. I have trouble reading the color chart on that one but it is always dark purple 8.4, 8.8. the kh tests high also. I need 10-12+ drops to get it to register the color change. 12 drops is the max reading the API test uses.
Are far as shipping water being elevated, I tested it to see where your water parameters were so that I would have an idea where my water parameters should be. What I meant by elevated, if you look at the API test color chart, where you want the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to test at the first line or "0" the readings were more to the second color line. I assumed this was shipping stress. They all seemed very happy for the first week. Your pH was lower than mine though.
Yes agreed, "something" is wrong. Ammonia is marginally high, between 0 and .25 right now. So I imagine its the "otherwise' I need to figure out. Question, If I do a 90% water change, won't that shock the shrimp even more? Wouldn't that be like placing them in an uncycled tank? Just trying to wrap my head around the process of "cycle". Prior to adding the 100 shrimp, I had about 30 shrimp in that tank.
The substrate is Carib Sea, Super Naturals. Tahitian Moon. The package says it is safe for saltwater.
My pH is always higher rather than lower. I have trouble reading the color chart on that one but it is always dark purple 8.4, 8.8. the kh tests high also. I need 10-12+ drops to get it to register the color change. 12 drops is the max reading the API test uses.
Are far as shipping water being elevated, I tested it to see where your water parameters were so that I would have an idea where my water parameters should be. What I meant by elevated, if you look at the API test color chart, where you want the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to test at the first line or "0" the readings were more to the second color line. I assumed this was shipping stress. They all seemed very happy for the first week. Your pH was lower than mine though.