Natural sponges in shrimp tanks

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:17 am

Terran,

How long did it take for the sponge to sink to the ground? Just asking as sponges naturally float in water, even when sucked full with water.

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:55 am

All the ones I have used so far(four in four different tanks now) have sank immediately after squeezing all the air out of them....

So I get some treated water....I hold the sponge under the water and squeeze it a bunch of times until it sinks....

These ones were put in the day that I started this topic...(but the pictures were taken today)

The drift wood is not holding it under...I just rested it over top of the sponge because I thought it looked cooler that way...

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:20 am

Thanks for the picture and explanation

.

I second Terran's observation, my new natural sponges also sank right after soaking

!

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:48 pm

Here is my experience so far. I bought a very large natural sponge from a hardware store yesterday. I soaked it in a bucket today to make sure any kind of chemicals the spone *might* have been treated with (who knows?) are released into the water. I tore two small pieces of today and put them into two different tanks (they immediately sank). After about 15 minutes to half an hour I noticed that my shrimp in both tanks were swimming around very frantically, both males and females (and young!). That is usually a very bad warning sign that something is wrong in the tank. The shrimp are basically looking for a way out. Their colors also did not look all that great, which is another indication for adverse conditions. So, I immediately took out the sponge and did 50% water changes in both tanks. The shrimp aren't swimming around anymore and have settled down. I'll have to see if I get any casualties from this in the longer term.

I am continuing to soak the sponges for now. I will change the water int he bucket every day to make sure that whatever leaches out of the sponge is thrown out and more can leach out of the sponge. I will attempt to put in the sponge in one or two "test" tanks in a week or two and see how that goes.

For all who are interested. These sponges are made up of something called "Spongin" which is a protein. Protein is very valuable in nature and biofilm probably loves to settle on it, but too much broken down protein can also cause bacterial blooms in the tank, which is *not* good. I'll have to make my own observations over the long term to figure out if putting in a sponge is is a good, bad or "neutral" thing to do.

For now, I will stick with my tanks full of algae, biofilm and nothing else.

RCSGuy · Post by **RCSGuy** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:54 pm

Thanks for the pictures, it looks very cool in there

And Mustafa thank you for sharing your experience, I guess I'll wait for you to give the "ok" before putting one in my tank

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:25 pm

Mustafa, I think you skipped a step:

and put it in an overpopulated guppy tank for a week to let it soak and accumulate a healthy population of critters and bacteria…(Also I wanted to make sure it wasnt going to kill off all my shrimp

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:45 pm

I didn't skip it, I just wanted to try and see if one day of soaking will be enough. I was aware of the risk. The bacteria can accumulate in the shrimp tank, too, after all.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:09 pm

That's cool, I know you push the envelope, I just wanted to be sure that if anyone else wants to try this it isn't just "pop the sponge in the tank", or that this idea is hopeless because "even Mustafa couldn't make it work". Shrimp are a lot more sensitive than guppies, so age the sponge first where good bacteria can woork their magic first.

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:19 pm

I know.

As I said, I am not done testing the whole thing, so no need to draw conclusions from my actions.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:28 pm

Thanks for the information above. I will also be trying the sponge too. I have soaked it in dechlorinated water and will soon put it into some aged water from a water change. I will then put it into a tank and see what happens also. Let's hope for the best.

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:59 am

Mustafa wrote:I know. As I said, I am not done testing the whole thing, so no need to draw conclusions from my actions.

So do you have any sponges in a tank with your Shrimp or Crays?

Im really interested in people testing this out because I dont have water testing equipment anymore I just have to rely on water changes and I was curious about the rate that the sponges would effect the water conditions (if noticeable at all)...

The one sponge that Ive had in a ten gallon tank is still rather large after the five+ months its been in there so the decay rate seems very slow....

Any news or are you waiting for more first hand reports before trying again....

Post by **Mustafa** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:05 am

I actually tried again yesterday. I have been soaking the sponge in a bucket for 11 days now and changing the water every few days. There was a distinctive "spongy" smell to the sponge in the beginning, which would transfer even to the water (i.e. if you stuck your hand into the bucket with the sponges even without touching the sponges, your hand would smell like the sponges). Over time, that smell started going away, although it's still there (faintly).

So, when I put a small piece of sponge (less than fist size) in one of my tanks yesterday the results were the same as during the first time. After a few minutes the shrimp started swimming around the tank frantically and some of them started turning a milky color. Again...I took out the sponge immediately and did a water change. Today I saw 2 dead shrimp in the tank.

So...there is something about this sponge that is harmful to the shrimp. I do not know if these sponges are chemically treated before they are sold, but there is a possibility. Whatever it is that is affecting the shrimp, it does not change the conductivity/TDS of the bucket water. So..it must be something that does not conduct electricity. Hence, heavy metals can be excluded from the list of possible culprits.

Anyway, I will keep soaking the sponge in the bucket and may try to put the sponge in a small aquarium by itself and allow micro-organisms to colonize it. Either way, micro-organisms or not, I can't see any reason (beyond chemical contamination) why the sponge is affecting the shrimp to such a degree and almost *immediately*.

As for my tanks...they have been doing great now the way I have set them up, so I will just follow the theory of "if it aint' broke, don't fix it" and leave them the way they are. I doubt adding a sponge *in my setup* will be of any benefit, as there is plenty of biofilm/algae/aufwuchs to pick on everywhere you look in my tanks.

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:47 am

Wierd.....

What your describing is entirely different than what has happened to me....(obviously)

You got any pictures of the type of sponge your using? Brand Or the company name thats selling the sponge?

Im very sorry that you had deaths from testing this...
I wonder what was put on your sponges?
Is it possible that you have some sort of artificial sponge?
If treated with chemicals I wonder what kinds would make such an extreme reaction...any ideas?

The sponges I am using do not smell "spongy" at all after spending time in a tank...they smell more like old tank water with a hint of what the carbon packs from my filter smell like when its time to change them....

This sponge right here spent less than 24 hours in treated water before I put it in my tank and the shrimp did not respond negatively... within a day or two they were actively grazing off it....

This picture doesnt do it justice because its blurry ...but you can see five adult shrimps(one a berried female) on it... one is right in front of it and another close behind it (Not seen in the picture is 4 or more babies in the tunnels of the sponge)...

Do the other people who are trying natural sponges have any stories that seem similiar to Mustafa's?

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:03 am

Anyway, I will keep soaking the sponge in the bucket and may try to put the sponge in a small aquarium by itself and allow micro-organisms to colonize it. Either way, micro-organisms or not, I can't see any reason (beyond chemical contamination) why the sponge is affecting the shrimp to such a degree and almost *immediately*.

Hi Mustafa, thanks for sharing your findings with us. I take it as a warning

After I soaked my sponge in some dechlorinated tap water for two weeks, I placed in in a small aquarium by itself ( as mentioned above ). I will leave it in there long enough to visually see some buildup/color to indicate biofilm/algae/aufwuchs

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:08 am

I wonder what was put on your sponges?
Is it possible that you have some sort of artificial sponge?
If treated with chemicals I wonder what kinds would make such an extreme reaction...any ideas?

The sponges I am using do not smell "spongy" at all after spending time in a tank...they smell more like old tank water with a hint of what the carbon packs from my filter smell like when its time to change them....

It might be that different brands of sponges are treated differently. You mentioned buying yours at a Home improvement store whereas I bought mine at an arts and crafts store. Well only time will tell. I will let you know how mine turns out.