Have been lurking for a long time..... Now need help....

[Mustafa]

You don't wait for a specific event. The goal is to have your shrimp thrive and reproduce. I've been waiting 9 months for the shrimp in my half-gallon jar to finally be berried...it finally happened but almost all eggs got dropped. So I wait some more. A tank has to find its balance over time. It can only happen if you don't mess with it. There is no set time for the "water to clear" or the "cyanobacteria to disappear"...it all depends on your tank. And as long as you don't further mess with your tank it's almost *impossible* for your shrimp to just decide to commit mass suicide for no reason whatsoever. Be patient...wait...and then wait some more.

[Carolina]

I just found two dead snails....
My specific question.... I don't know if they are all dead, since they bury....
My question was, how long until it's safe to add more snails? Should I? And shrimp.... When am I going to know that's safe to add shrimp? There won't be a mass suicide since there is no shrimp in it... But since the snails seem to be suffering.... When should I add them? That's what I don't know here.

[Mustafa]

Are you sure they are dead? Are the shells empty? Carolina...most people can add snails and macroalgae right away if their tanks have been set up correctly. The fact that animals are still dying in your tank means that there is *something* wrong...something is in the water that kills them. That's not normal. So I can't really give you "normal" advice as to when to put anything in your tank. I would still just wait since any ad hoc changes you have made have done absolutely nothing or possibly made the situation worse by lengthening the amount of time the tank needs to establish a biological balance. Like I said before...not seeing any snails does not mean they are dead...I've had tanks where I didn't see snails for months before I saw a bunch of tiny babies. Turns out they were happily hiding and breeding in the substrate and only coming out at night (if at all).

[Carolina]

Pretty sure they are dead.... They were on the top of the substrate and not moving....
I moved them to the front of the tank so I could observe them.... Still not moving.
I will put them into a brackish water little tank and see if they move...

[Carolina]

I have some good news at last.... Tank #1,the original tank.
I turned off the filter yesterday as a test (was running with chemi pure elite and purigen) and left it off overnight and all day today. For the first time, the brown cloud didn't form.... Not even a sign.
I was finally able to remove the filter.
There is a lot of algae in the tank, but the snails, Hermie and the shrimp are loving it.
It still requires a considerable amount of cleaning on the marimo, the little algae ball and the chaetamorpha.
But everyone is happy and healthy, there haven't been any more deaths, and the water is sparkling clean.
The tank now hasn't been fed since December, and is running without a filter.
How the tank is looking now, finally with clean glass and clean water I know it still looks dirty..... But if you turn back to page 11 for comparison.... its a huge difference - plus, I am thrilled that nasty brown cloud is GONE!!
The only slight issue is the irritating nerite eggs on the walls...... oh well! I take that


Side View


The substrate is still quite "nasty"




Lots of algae


Close up of the algae, that fell off the glass (in sheets)

[Carolina]

Happy dance! Woooohoooooo! Everyone is still alive, happy and healthy on tank one without a filter, the evil brown cloud is not back, and the water remains sparkling clean!
All the shrimpies are active all over the tank, and seem very happy to feast on that algae.
Whew, finally!
I itch to clean that yucky substrate, but since they are all doing so well, I will just do nothing. I am sure in due time with all the snails and shrimp, all is going to be fine.
The only things I do need to clean weekly are the marimo, the tiny algae ball from Mustafa, and the chaetamorpha, which get really dirty and covered in gunk.
I AM SO HAPPY!

[Carolina]

Mustafa, question for you.... Sorry, I know you are sick and tired of my questions
Anyways, I know your approach is pretty much doing nothing and letting nature taking its course.... But for some odd reason there was something in my tanks killing my life stock. We already know that.
Long story short, I ran a hob filter with chemi pure elite and purigen for a month (on tank #1,which contains shrimp) . Throught that month I stopped the filter twice and the brown cloud came back, killing shrimpies. But at the month mark, all seemed ok, and I was finally able to remove the filter.
The test will be this week - I will be away for an entire week, and if all is ok when I come back, I will deem the tank recovered.
Since tank number #2,the tank I recently cycled seemed to have similar issues, in addition to cyanobacteria, I decided to install the filter in it.
As you know, I found two dead snails in it (Yes, they were in fact dead, and as you said this is NOT normal)
One thing that chemi pure elite does, is remove phosphate and silicates, therefore it completely clears up diatoms. It literally takes an hour or so for the water to get clear from it. So, the tank now has clear water, and the remaining snails seem to be doing better.
I know it will take a month or so to completely clear the tank as with tank #1,and that's OK.
But my question is in re. To the cyanobacteria.
I noticed that it only grew where the tank received light... For example, there is not at all under the caves, the shadows of the corals, etc.
I also read that a black out can eliminate it in a couple of days....
Since I only have snails, and no shrimp in it, I was wondering if now (well, when I come back from my trip) a black out our be worth a try...
I really don't hear any positives about cyanobacteria, on the contrary.... And if I can easily eliminate with a black out....
What do you think?
Thanks
Again, this tank has only your snails, has cycled for 2 months, and I am not going to hurry into putting any shrimp into it until I see that healthy enough.
Thanks again

[Mustafa]

I would just leave it alone. Blacking out tanks does not solve the problem usually as the dead cyanobacteria just release nutrients back into the water, which then causes more algae/cyanobacteria outbreaks. If you sit there and wait (and possibly remove sheets of cyanobacteria that come off the tank walls) things will turn around. It just takes time.

[Carolina]

I would just leave it alone. Blacking out tanks does not solve the problem usually as the dead cyanobacteria just release nutrients back into the water, which then causes more algae/cyanobacteria outbreaks. If you sit there and wait (and possibly remove sheets of cyanobacteria that come off the tank walls) things will turn around. It just takes time.

can shrimp been added to the tank? The snails are doing well.... Idk if they are reproducing, but now I can see them around and they have grown a bunch.
The tank has been cycling for over 2 months now...

[Carolina]

Update on tank #1, the original tank.
Everything is great. Shrimpies, Hermie and snails all happy and healthy. The water is still completely clear.
I cleaned the marimo and the tiny algae ball, as well as the chaetamorpha, they were very dirty, but aside from that, doing well also.
Also cleaned the thick crust of gunk from the substrate.
Very happy to see this tank's recovery!

[Mustafa]

Glad things are looking good finally. Yes, I'm pretty sure it's ok to add shrimp now. If the snails are growing and doing well, then the shrimp should be fine, too.

[Carolina]

Glad things are looking good finally. Yes, I'm pretty sure it's ok to add shrimp now. If the snails are growing and doing well, then the shrimp should be fine, too.

So, tank #2.... I can't say I am not concerned.... The snails are doing fine, and the water is clear, but I am sure due to the chemi pure elite and purigen for I have installed to get rid of the Diatoms.
Before that, the snails were perishing.
Thing is, it's covered in what I thought to be algae, but what you said it is cyanobacteria.
Take a look at it:

It seems to concentrate on the white sand side, the top of the rocks and the tips of the corals... There is none where light doesn't hit.
For what I read about it, this is toxic for most aquarium livestock... Which makes me curious how it is not as toxic for opae Ula.
I also read that it's fairly common in new tanks- during after cycling, diatoms first, then cyanobacteria, and with time it tends to go away. Will this massive amount of cyanobacteria kill the shrimp, or do you think they will be fine? I don't think I can remove this thing from the tank... It's not sheets.... Aside from the glass, there is not much I can clean here.... It's just a total green mess.

[Carolina]

Since I had a lot of shrimp on tank #1,i transfered about half to tank #2...
They are swimming erratically, but what's amazing me is that they seem to be grazing on the cyanobacteria.... I never expected them to like that!
Hope it won't kill them!
They seem to be fine.... Time will tell.

[JasonG3333]

From your photos, it looks like I had the exact same problem with excessive growths in the first tank I ever set up for these guys. Also like you, the catalyst for that tank was 2 shrimp I freed from my Ecosphere of 6 years. Here's a link to my post from a while back concerning that issue: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5199 (the missing photos have been re-uploaded to the post - just scroll down to find them).

Those 2 freed shrimp are still doing quite well as we speak. As Mustafa told me and is telling you, just leave things alone for the most part, and your shrimp should be ok, unless your water chemistry is out of wack in a way that isn't yet completely evident. My first guess as to why your tank might be doing odd things, such as the excessive algae growth, is that it may be due to the various plants you've included in your tanks. Some of these plants being added, as can be found throughout this forum, to these Opae Ula tanks don't do their best in brackish water, so there is a bit of a risk there regarding how they will affect a tank's ecosystem. They also compete for nutrients with any other plants or algae in there which can lead to some greenery flourishing while others are deprived, leading possibly to a state of unbalance of some sort or another. I once added a mystery plant to another tank of mine, and there were times where it threw things off a bit in various ways, but it eventually settled back to normal. I was nervous there for a while, though. Here's my post pertaining to that plant: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5360

If things don't settle, you may want to start one of your tanks over again, but this time with simpler aquascaping, where "simpler" mainly means no other plants other than the macroalgae you can purchase from this site, at least to start off with. After things are well established, then you can gradually add other foliage and observe its effect.

I see you're using aragonite substrate and have other pieces of calcium carbonate material in there, so it shouldn't be an acidity issue. Hope your tanks arrive at a healthy balance (assuming they haven't already) especially with those freed Ecosphere shrimp in there! Gotta make sure those guys make it after all they've been through!

[Carolina]

From your photos, it looks like I had the exact same problem with excessive growths in the first tank I ever set up for these guys. Also like you, the catalyst for that tank was 2 shrimp I freed from my Ecosphere of 6 years. Here's a link to my post from a while back concerning that issue: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5199 (the missing photos have been re-uploaded to the post - just scroll down to find them).

Those 2 freed shrimp are still doing quite well as we speak. As Mustafa told me and is telling you, just leave things alone for the most part, and your shrimp should be ok, unless your water chemistry is out of wack in way that isn't yet completely evident. My first guess as to why your tank might be doing odd things, such as the excessive algae growth, is that it may be due to the various plants you've included in your tanks. Some of these plants being added, as can be found throughout this forum, to these Opae Ula tanks don't do their best in brackish water, so there is a bit of a risk there regarding how they will affect a tank's ecosystem. They also compete for nutrients with any other plants or algae in there which can lead to some greenery flourishing while others are deprived, leading possibly to a state of unbalance of some sort or another. I once added a mystery plant to another tank of mine, and there were times where it threw things off a bit in various ways, but it eventually settled back to normal. I was nervous there for a while, though. Here's my post pertaining to that plant: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5360

If things don't settle, you may want to start one of your tanks over again, but this time with simpler aquascaping, where "simpler" mainly means no other plants other than the macroalgae you can purchase from this site, at least to start off with. After things are well established, then you can gradually add other foliage and observe its effect.

I see you're using aragonite substrate and have other pieces of calcium carbonate material in there, so it shouldn't be an acidity issue. Hope your tanks arrive at a healthy balance (assuming they haven't already) especially with those freed Ecosphere shrimp in there! Gotta make sure those guys make it after all they've been through!

Hi,
Thanks for your comment..... Just to clarify..... Those plants were in my tank when I first set it up in December for a few days, and taken off.
Currently I have two tanks, the 5-gallon only has a macro algae, marimo ball and an algae ball from Mustafa, the 10 gallon only Marimo balls. No Plants....