so indecisive about a substrate!

JohnPaul · Post by **JohnPaul** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:04 am

Normally I'm a pretty decisive type of person, but I'm really unsure right now what substrate I want for my soon-to-be-set-up 10g RCS-only tank.

Heard enough stories about people not liking light substrates, so have ruled that out.

So here are the other things I am considering. Advice from those who have gone down any of these roads would be awesome.

Eco-complete. Reported to work fine with no problems, provides nutriets to the roots of plants so that would be good I would think. Easy enough to gravel vac if necessary. Only question is, do the nutriets in the eco-complete violate the "no fertilizing" rule?

Tahitian Moon Sand. Also reports of this working, I really like the look of it (a LFS has this in one of their NFS show tanks). My only question about this is, since it lacks the nutrients of Eco-Complete, is it hard to keep plants alive when planted in this stuff? No nutriets from the substrate, no nutrients from fertilizing...how do the dang plants grow?!?

Cichlid Sand. I know this buffers pH higher than neutral, but...how much higher? Anyone know?

Black/White Mix. If I go the sand route, I was wondering if mixing some Tahitian Moon Sand with some white PFS I have to create a mix would look good, or if it would look so "busy" that it would distract from the color of the shrimp. Anyone tried an option like this?

Thanks everyone. Other than the nutrient question, I realize this is a purely aesthetic thing (and so no one but "me" can truly know what I am going to like), but I do value the opinions of those who have tried things before. You guys (& gals) rock...

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:30 am

Stay away from anything that adds to the water unless you plan for it. I don't recommend eco complete as over time it may have a bad effect.

I have Tahitian Moon Sand in one tank. Not very good for under gravel filters as it is very fine, but not as fine as play sand. The shrimp in that tank are going just fine.

I'm really liking the look of the pea gravel I am using from Home depot. This is a rusty-yellow color and quite attractive. The cherries show very well on it, and the tank looks nice & briight. Can't beat the price at around $3 for a 50# bag.

Don't use Cichlid Sand. This can push your pH well above 8 and you won't be able to bring it down for any length of time.

Here is a tank with the pea gravel. I never use ferts of any kind. Java moss, Java fern, and some wolfia (for the snails) do just fine.

ToddnBecka · Post by **ToddnBecka** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:04 am

Cichlid sand is usually aragonite, it will raise the pH well above 8 and buffer it there. I use crushed coral mixed with black gravel to darken it a bit. Crushed coral will maintain pH at 7.6, the shrimp and snails thrive in that. If you use sand, some MTS would be useful to keep it stirred, preventing anaerobic bacteria from developing in the bed.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:08 am

If you use sand, some MTS would be useful to keep it stirred, preventing anaerobic bacteria from developing in the bed.

How many MTS would you recommend? I am only using a couple as I am weary of them multiplying out of control

ToddnBecka · Post by **ToddnBecka** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:26 am

The MTS in my shrimp tank don't multiply nearly as quickly as they do in the tanks w/fish. They seem to grow larger rather than producing hundreds od babies. I usually find hundreds of smaller snails with the fish, only see a few dozen smaller ones in the shrimp tank, and several very large (for MTS, as long as the biggest shrimp). Most likely directly a result of more available food in the larger tanks.
You don't need many for a small tank, they will only reproduce according to available food supply.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:25 am

Here is a tank with the pea gravel. I never use ferts of any kind. Java moss, Java fern, and some wolfia (for the snails) do just fine.

Thanks for sharing the picture of your tank, the pea gravel does look very nice, I think I will try it

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:23 am

Another option for a planted shrimp tank: Fluorite

I have it in one of my planted shrimp tanks and it has been excellent for both shrimp and plants. I do not use fertilizer but my plants all look healthy and happy. I know the fluorite provides some nutrients to the plants.

One note: it is almost impossible to see baby shirmp on the fluorite (and on most any substrates except black colored). If they made a bag of fluorite that was only the darkest colored pieces, I would be all over it. I know they make a red and a mixed (I used the mixed)

milalic · Post by **milalic** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:50 am

badflash wrote:Stay away from anything that adds to the water unless you plan for it. I don't recommend eco complete as over time it may have a bad effect.

Do you know what exactly is the bad effect?

Thanks

crazie.eddie · Post by **crazie.eddie** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:13 am

Plants can get the nutrients from fish waste if you have fish and also the minerals from the water in tap.

Cableguy · Post by **Cableguy** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:02 am

Neonshrimp wrote:
If you use sand, some MTS would be useful to keep it stirred, preventing anaerobic bacteria from developing in the bed.
How many MTS would you recommend? I am only using a couple as I am weary of them multiplying out of control

i use sand in my 125, i've got.... 1000+ MTS, at any given time you can see maybe 2 dozen unless it's right after you turn the lights on, then you can watch the sand churn as they all bury themselves

my substrate is actually an inch of flourite, then an inch of sand, so i get the best of both worlds, asthetics and nutrition

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am

milalic wrote:
badflash wrote:Stay away from anything that adds to the water unless you plan for it. I don't recommend eco complete as over time it may have a bad effect.
Do you know what exactly is the bad effect?

Thanks

There have been several threads here with people who used eco complete and had unexplained die-offs that they could not or would not correct. I have no direct evidence or experience with this product. I do know that once you use something that adds stuff to the water, you've lost your ability to control the water parameters. I'm of a mind that you should only put things in that I know what they do and can easily remove without braking down a tank when I find new info.

Quartz pea gravel is now my substrate of choice with hardwood leaves being my only additive. If you want bogwood or something like that, get a plastic look-alike.

lampeye · Post by **lampeye** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:57 am

For years, I've used nothing but a bare tank bottom. Some Java moss, Java fern, and/or hornwort provides cover. I'll add driftwood if it still looks too sparse. It's much easier to clean and makes it easy to control MTS. Throw in some leaf litter for munchies/refuge. My cherries and crays seem to like it fine.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:25 pm

For years, I've used nothing but a bare tank bottom.

I too am starting to do the bare bottom tanks for the same reasons you are.

crazie.eddie · Post by **crazie.eddie** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:25 pm

BB tanks don't look too natural. I only use them for growout or QT tanks.

LOL. Though I would consider a tank BB if there's something else covering the bottom. It certainly couldn't be considered a BB, but certainly does not have a substrate. Maybe a new category.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:46 pm

It certainly couldn't be considered a BB, but certainly does not have a substrate. Maybe a new category.

I see how one can be confused, I meant bear bottom as in no traditional substrate in the tank