Red cherry shrimp set-up

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:03 pm

Hello all,

I have been lurking around this site for a couple years while trying to build up the nerve to try my hand at shrimp. To make a long story short, I dedicated my first 15 gallon shrimp tank 3 days ago. It is to be a RCS only tank with no substrate. I have added 2 coconut caves, plenty of java moss, riccia, and salvinia natans. In order to speed up cycling, I wrung out a mature sponge filter into the tank. In preparation for my shrimp, due to arrive the last part of this coming week, I also seeded the tank with a mix of freshwater plankton (ciliates, rotifers, copepods, and daphnia).

pH=7.8, TDS=850ppm, and lighting is provided by mother nature since the tank sits on my back patio during the daylight hours.

My question is, is there anything that I have not taken into account here. This is my first venture into shrimp, and I want to make sure that everything is ready before they arrive. This is intended to be my learning curve as I eventually plan to set up for crystal red and bee shrimp in separate tanks as well.

Thanks,

Larry Vires

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:15 pm

Welcome abourd.

For sure there is lots you have not taken into account, but nothing obvious. The biggest issue is temperature control. Be sure the tank does not get too hot, and be sure to not overfeed. Most new shrimpers can't understand how little they eat. Over feeding kills more shrimp than anything else.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:20 pm

Thanks for the input.

As to temperature control, it was my understanding that they are fine up to the mid 80's. My past ponds, a bit different with a tank because the soil doesn't insulate the sides, rarely ever broke the 78 degree mark and only then during extended heatwaves. Others locally that keep tanks outside have told me that their tanks never go above 84.

Should I expect a problem at that temperature?

Also, I have read a lot about leaf litter. Oak trees aren't exactly abundant in the desers, so I have to ask if there are any Sanoran desert species which may suffice. Most trees here, aside from various citrus, have relatively small leaves.

Thanks,

Larry Vires

wijnands · Post by **wijnands** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:45 am

Don't you have any friends in temperate parts of the country? 20-30 leaves would easily fit in a padded envelope and will last a while.

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:49 am

I don't know exactly where you live, but there are plenty of scrub oak species living along temporary creeks and such in the desert southwest of the U.S.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:37 am

I believe that many different hardwood tree leaves will work, not just the Oaks.
Beech, Aspen. Maple and Walnut should all be safe as long as the leaves have been dried out completely before waterlogging them for a layer of liter that will help supply food and cover as well as simulating many tropical waters rich in tannins and humic acids.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:45 pm

I agree that most hard woods will work. I've tried maple, but i think I'd steer clear of Walnut and related nut trees. These trees produce a natural herbicide and unless tested, I would be leery of using them with shrimp.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:15 pm

Oaks are relatively uncommon where I live and I have enough shrimp and blackwater fishes that I can afford to try some Black Walnut leaves out to see if it causes any untoward results. I'll be doing so and should it prove safe or not, I'll post the results. I have two large trees of it so it won't be difficult to obtain and dry some leaves. I am also interested in finding out if it is compatible with some SA Dwarf Cichlids.

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:23 am

pleco_breeder wrote: Should I expect a problem at that temperature?

84 degrees F is not a problem for red cherries as long as they have enough oxygen (i.e. large water body in relation to shrimp mass plus aeration).

Also, I have read a lot about leaf litter. Oak trees aren't exactly abundant in the desers, so I have to ask if there are any Sanoran desert species which may suffice. Most trees here, aside from various citrus, have relatively small leaves.

You'll just have to experiment with various leaves. Most dry, brown leaves that have been on the ground for a while *should* have leached out most of the harmful chemicals that they *might* have had, but to be on the safe side you should always soak the leaves in water for a few days to weeks and test them in a separate tank on a few shrimp. If the shrimp start swimming around frantically (i.e. trying to leave the tank) and stop picking (picking is a sign of normal, healthy behavior) remove the shrimp immediately. The shrimp usually don't get harmed when removed immediately.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:39 am

Hello all,

The tank seems to be up to par. I have traditionally used daphnia pulex as a test organism for fish tanks since they are very sensitive to nitrogen compounds in the water. Those introduced after setting up the tank have nearly turned it into a new daphnia culture

The shrimp are to arrive tomorrow, so I would like to know 2 more things.

1) Is it reasonable to assume that they will be alright since the daphnia are doing so well in the tank?

2) The tank has a small amount of diatoms in the biofilm that has developed. Will the cherries help to keep this under control, or will they avoid those organisms in favor of other foods? If they are going to avoid it, I would like to know asap so I can try to get those portions under control to allow the better organisms to grow. Selective culture

Thanks again,

Larry Vires

wijnands · Post by **wijnands** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:48 am

1. Yes, should be

2. Not sure, never seen 'm in real live. Your shrimp are basically omnivours. If it's on the bottom and either dead or small and not putting up a struggle it's food. My bees have eaten live tubifex.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:29 pm

Hi Larry,
We have had some contact from the planetcatfish and I have seen some of your innovative methods and descriptions of your systems. I am sure your experience with shrimp will be a positive one.

The shrimp readily feed on the diatoms.

They are much easier to keep and breed than your Hypancistrus and other plecos.

Larry W.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:53 am

Hello,

Well, the cherries are here, and now I have even more questions. Most of them were swimming wildly around in the bag, not settling on the plant shipped with them. I got them acclimated to their tank, and added more java hoping that they would settle and eat. They're still swimming around quite a bit, not as fast as in the bag, and don't seem to much care if they are right side up, often swimming a great distance upside down. I've seen them hang upside down, but swimming??? Is this normal???

Thanks,

Larry Vires

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:16 am

I sometimes see mine swimming upside down when they are grazing on the film that sometimes appears on the water's surface .....

But, if they are swimming around wildly then they may not be too thrilled with the enviroment....

Keep an eye on them.....maybe they will settle down after a while.....if you can, test the water conditions and tell us the tank conditions again.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:24 am

Hello,

Water conditions haven't changed. The shrimp have calmed quite a bit, but still don't seem interested in eating. They're not really swimming wildly, but are constantly on the move. I expected that they would be more inclined to stay on the bottom, but these have the same curiosity that I would expect from a sedentary tetra. They're swimming around like they're checking the place out. Up one wall, swim around the surface a time or two, hit a wall and follow it to the bottom only to do it again. Not dashing, but cruising. Is that what I should expect???

Aside from the unexpected behavior, I'm thrilled. Several of the larger females, although not colored up, already have egg saddles. I've even seen a couple of the smaller ones, I'm assuming males, dancing around these female like an amorous guppy.

Sorry if I'm posting too much today, but this project has been in the planning for a couple weeks and this is one of the VERY few aspects of the freshwater hobby that I have a limited experience with. For that reason, any help or just moral support is going to be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Larry Vires

Thanks again,

Larry Vires