RCS and Seachem's Flourish

[Suzie Q]

A lot of people mention using Flourish and Flourish Excel(?) for plants. The bottle that I looked at lastnight (Seachem's Flourish) contains .0001% copper. Will this be ok for my shrimp? or should I get another type of fert (Petsmart did not have Excel). I have not found (locally) any ferts that don't contain copper. Is this small amount ok for shrimp?
Thanks.

[Mustafa]

Have you searched the forum first? Always a good idea to do that to avoid repetition (and follow the rules). The answers to your question are all over the place in this forum and on this website.

[Leonard]

Hi I use a lots of micro fertilation and that's ok with my RC. I can't belive it would hurt. Al micro fertz. almost contains the same number of chemicals. I use ProFito and dose more than recomended, also I have Tropica Plantsubstrat.

It would be very strange if they reacted on it!

[badflash]

It is just a matter of time before you'll be posting about your shrimp dying one by one and your water is fine...

People keep posting about using ferts. They aren't needed and will eventually do your shrimp in. The effect is cumulative.

[Suzie Q]

Have you searched the forum first? Always a good idea to do that to avoid repetition (and follow the rules). The answers to your question are all over the place in this forum and on this website.

No Mustafa, I did not search first...I am sorry. It was late, and I just forgot to search first. I have not fert my plants in a few months, and just got new plants...won't happen again.

[Dusko]

I have tested one European product called Easy Carbo (same as Excel) in different planted tanks with CRS, RCS, and C. multidentata and all shrimps react the same.
They stop eating and stay on one spot without moving, usually grouping together. Some shrimps also died instantly! In my experience, shrimp-keepers should not use products like Easy Carbo or Excel.

Only medium to Hi light tanks need fertilisers, and shrimp tanks, IME, do much better with less light (low light 1 w/g). Ferts are not needed in low light planted aquariums with shrimps, weekly wc will add enough macros and micros to the tank.
Also, since tap water in some cities/countries contain little or no macros like PO4, NO3, K and traces (good to get a report form your water supplier) it is good to choose plants wisely.
Small amount of macros/micros in a tap, choose slow to medium growing plants. Tap with lots of PO4 and NO3 + traces should be stocked with a few fast growers.

Folk doesn't understand plant's nutrient uptake rate, and start getting algae problems, and of course start adding lots of ferts to the tank, dosing Excel to kill Black Beard Algae, forgetting that shrimps are living in those tanks.

If the priority is plants, than dose ferts like Excel, but don't keep shrimps in there.
If the priority are shrimps, stop dosing Excel and similar (liquid nor dry), and research you tap's nutritional levels so you can plant according to tap water readings and shrimp stocking level.

Getting BBA, lower your lights (RCS that I found in my Juwel filter box, total darkness, looked healthier than the ones in the tank). BBA comes only if CO2 levels aren't same. Water change will introduce some amount of CO2 which plant start up taking like crazy After day or two the tank is at low CO2 again and plants get stressed, and BBA loves these conditions. Low light tanks don't have big problems (or none IME) with BBAlgae after water changes.
For those who are very dedicated and have some time can start performing daily 5% water changes, so adding extra CO2 which comes with tap water, followed by a weekly 20%. No need for Excel in shrimp tanks, just choose low lights (1w/g), get your tap stats and add plants according to tap stats and shrimp stocking levels.

Kind regards, Dusko.

[Neonshrimp]

I have to say thank you Dusko. That whole post was full of useful and important information because it came from someone's/your personal experience and put into an inteligent and clear message. If anyone ever had questions about the pros and cons of using ferts in a shrimp tank, they sould read this.

If the priority is plants, than dose ferts like Excel, but don't keep shrimps in there.
If the priority are shrimps, stop dosing Excel and similar (liquid nor dry), and research you tap's nutritional levels so you can plant according to tap water readings and shrimp stocking level.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. When I see post where someone ask how much they should dose in their shrimp tank or if it is safe I just role my eyes I say "NOT AGAIN" because these are the same people who will either try to reason their way into using the ferts and harming their shrimp or they will disregard anything said against using ferts for one person's testimony about how their shrimp are still doing great after dosing with ferts. What they don't know is that one case may be due to a unique circumstance/not being truthful or the person's shrimp are not showing the effects yet

I just know that I will not use ferts in my tanks and my shrimp are the most imortant thing in the tanks.

[badflash]

If you grow java moss and java fern, no ferts are ever needed, the shrimp love it, and everyone stays happy. I never use ferts, but my tap water is liquid rock, so I need no minerals. The shrimp provide enough nitrates for these plants.

[HellRaizer]

in my limited time of keeping rcs, around 8 months by now, i have found the best way to keep both good growing plants and shrimp together is to use the Diana Walstad way of setting up a planted tank... setting up the tank with a 2cm layer of organic compost and dolomitic lime, and covering it with a 5cm layer of fine gravel will supply anything the plants could possibly need to grow well.. all other nutrients will be supplied by supplemetal feeding to the shrimps like bottom feeder tablets and sera vipan tablets to supply vegtable and meat materials for the health of the shrimps
using 3watts per gallon will then enable you to grow even demanding difficult plants, without having to dose anything, just a simple 30% waterchange once a month with a filter cleanup once every 2 to 3 weeks...
so far my cherrys are breeding me out of house, with two colonies, one in a 2foot and one in a 3foot, and giving away 20 + once a month to avoid overpopulation
and the females dont just go a shade of red, they are mostly ALL blood red! and some of the oldest ones measuring up to 2 inches
so i would agree, dont dose chemicals that could do any harm to the shrimps, rather set up a low tech tank and establish a good balance, and once you have a flourishing planted setup introduce some shrimps
there is ofcourse a perfect way to set up a shrimp tank, but then you cant have plants at all
as it has been discussed on here, the perfect way to go for shrimps is no plants at all, so that bio film grows to feed them naturally
in a planted setup the plants use up all the nutrients needed to form a lush layer of the bio film, requiring you to then ad supplemental feeds for the shrimps so they dont starve
good plants to have in a planted shrimp tank is java moss and ricia, both are fine leaved so the shrimps can graze on them if natural food is on the low side in the tank

[badflash]

I'd love to see a pic of your setup.

[HellRaizer]

i will try organise someone to come visit with a decent camera so i can update my thread with what my setups look like currently
then i can also try get some close ups of my prized females in theyre full color blossom
the only down side is that some are so evenly red that you cant see the eggs, you only see the eggs when you get to see them from below while they fan them with theyre swimmerets

[sstimac]

I used to fertilise. My cherries did not breed well, it was only the first month though. I also lost some, but this could have been due to the stress of moving. I keep Madagascar Lace plants in my set up and even without ferts and CO2 they are doing very well. My glosso does not do well without ferts, though. It is possible to have beautiful plants and keep shrimp. Control your photo period and be sure to keep up on algae, if it shows up. I do have small amounts of hair algae, that I have to routinely remove. If you find yourself accumulating algae, I recommend you pick up some marimo balls, as they tend to be very quick to eat up nutrients before other algae can. I have about 9 of them. Mosses also eat up nutrients quickly. My mosses double in size every couple of weeks.

[Neonshrimp]

I used to fertilise. My cherries did not breed well, it was only the first month though. I also lost some, but this could have been due to the stress of moving. I keep Madagascar Lace plants in my set up and even without ferts and CO2 they are doing very well. My glosso does not do well without ferts, though. It is possible to have beautiful plants and keep shrimp. Control your photo period and be sure to keep up on algae, if it shows up. I do have small amounts of hair algae, that I have to routinely remove. If you find yourself accumulating algae, I recommend you pick up some marimo balls, as they tend to be very quick to eat up nutrients before other algae can. I have about 9 of them. Mosses also eat up nutrients quickly. My mosses double in size every couple of weeks.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I will try adding more than one marimo ball. I have moss in all of my shrimp tanks and they are always on it I have a planted tank for my yellow tank that gets bright light and the plants that grow in there look great and grow well without ferts. The shrimp are breeding readily and are very active. I have found a balance that does not require ferts for these various plants to grow

[thief]

Wow great information. Really changed how I think. Well I am going to be setting up a planted shrimp rack. I do plan to use CO2 but it would be pressurized and more controled. But right now I am stuck on lighting. Would 2.7 WPG be ok without dosing. I do not want to dose anything in any of my tanks. But with the CO2 and 2.7 WPG would that be ok?

[Neonshrimp]

What are you planning to grow, you will do well with plants that need up to medium light requirements. It also depends on how long and often you have the CO2 going.