Bee Shrimp and CRS question

southerndesert · Post by **southerndesert** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:27 am

Hello All,

I have a CRS tank with S+ grade in it and they are doing very well and I am hoping to see berried females soon. But I have this question...

I was also sent 4 Bee shrimp as a bonus and after seeing articles about Bee Shrimp being kept with CRS to strengthen the gene pool and being a new shrimper I am a bit confused although I do understand a good part of the process.

Is it indeed advisable to keep these 4 Bee with my CRS to strengthen future generations or am I best advised to add diversity by simply adding high grade CRS from a different breeder altogether?

I hope this isn't a silly question, but my searches for info as I said have left me a bit confused.

Thanks for your patience with my questions....

Bill

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:01 am

Adding bee shrimp to "strengthen" the gene pool is a myth (unfortunately an extremely wide-spread one) and does not work. First of all, there is absolutely no evidence at all that inbreeding weakens decapod crustaceans. Keep in mind that CRS are extremely inbred because they come from just one (or just a few) animals that had the red mutation. The higher the "grade" of a CRS the more inbred it is. Same applies to RCS and "high grade" bee shrimp and just about any shrimp in captivity, even wild forms.

If there were evidence that inbreeding weakens these animals, the only thing that would "strengthen" them would be to cross them with actually wild bee shrimp. Just adding equally inbred "high grade" bee shrimp would not do much, especially since many (most?) of these bee shrimp have been crossed with the CRS at one point or another. Just because they are black does not mean they are more genetically diverse.

T

southerndesert · Post by **southerndesert** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:55 pm

I see,

Thank you Mustafa.

Bill

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:32 pm

Adding bee shrimp to "strengthen" the gene pool is a myth (unfortunately an extremely wide-spread one) and does not work.

Wow, I am glad to hear about this one. I have also been told the same thing. Many breeders actually blieve the "strengthening" theory. I guess the evidence is in the observed results or lack of it.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:19 pm

People try to generalize breeding way too much. What is true in mammals and other vertebrates like turtles and snakes, can not be generalized to invertebrates, or even fish. They have other reproductive strategies that the "higher level" animals rarely employ.

A single ramshorn snail can self fertilize and produce a new healthy colony. Many inverts, such as apple snails, can change sex if need be. The same goes for many species of fish.

The idea that a small population of animals can not produce a large healthy population is complete nonsense, how else could new species evolve? I bought 6 endler live bearer guppies (wild blackbar stock). These have since bread into a healthy colony of several thousand fish. The diversity of patterns from just 6 fish is astonishing, as well as their robustness.

Sometimes you just have to buck the conventional wisdom and try something different. If you just go on what others tell you, nothing new is ever learned.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:30 pm

Sometimes you just have to buck the conventional wisdom and try something different. If you just go on what others tell you, nothing new is ever learned.

Agreed!

bought 6 endler live bearer guppies (wild blackbar stock). These have since bread into a healthy colony of several thousand fish. The diversity of patterns from just 6 fish is astonishing, as well as their robustness.

I too have a endler colony from an original group of 7.

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:46 am

badflash wrote:
A single ramshorn snail can self fertilize and produce a new healthy colony.

I think I was told by Mustafa that Ramshorns cant self fertilize....yeah this is what he said

Ramshorns cannot reproduce asexually. They are not like MTS. You need two animals to found a population. Yes, they are hermaphrodites, but they still need to mate. If you ever put a very small baby ramshorn in a tank without ramshorns, it will be the only ramshorn in the tank. It will grow up and eventually die without ever reproducing.