i was thinking of starting a five gallon tank that will be dedicated to Halocaridina rubra a.k.a. hawian red shrimp or Opae ula and i was hoping that others on this forum have had experiance and can help me get started.
firstly, i would like to know what salinity is recomended? i know on the shrimp varietie page it says it can tolerate extremes, but i would like to know if anyone has had success with a specific level?
secondly, i was wondering if anyone knew if the folowing plants can survive in brakish water; java moss, duckweed, or water sprite? i've heard that java moss can, but how high of a level can it stand?
thirdly i was thinking of buying from the link listed below. is buying them as a food item a bad idea, like in the case of ghost shrimp? will they be unhealthier than if i buy them as pets? is there a recomender place to purchess them(not echo systems)?
sorry for the long post, any help will be apreciated.
Halocaridina rubra care
Moderator: Mustafa
I keep my H. rubra at half the salinity of ocean water (specific gravity around 1.012-14. However, as long as you avoid extremes, they should feel comfortable at a wider range. The link you have provided also lists salinity information by the way and their salinity is ok, too.
Java Moss can only take very little salt in the water and will stop growing and dying at even moderate salinity levels (such as 1.005 and above). I don't know what its exact salt tolerance is though since I have not conducted extensive expriments.
Oh yeah...sold as food or pet does not matter...they all come from the same ponds.
Mustafa
Java Moss can only take very little salt in the water and will stop growing and dying at even moderate salinity levels (such as 1.005 and above). I don't know what its exact salt tolerance is though since I have not conducted extensive expriments.
Oh yeah...sold as food or pet does not matter...they all come from the same ponds.
Mustafa
-
chlorophyll
- Shrimp
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:22 am
- Location: Hawaii - USA
Hi,
At the lab I use at the university we have been keeping a healthy active population at about 14 parts per thousand (sorry, ppt is how I learned salinity... I don't even understand specific gravity
).
It's not too uncommon for anchialine pools to be 2-12 ppt, so I would wager the shrimp would thrive in the 5-10 ppt range as well... though I have no solid evidence to recommend that.
Our population doesn't breed as far as we've noticed, but the tank really wasn't set up to be a breeding tank. Soon I plan on setting up a breeding environment and plan on getting an idea of the minimum salinity needed to have them breed. But first I have to get them breeding in the first place, and will probably start in the 12-15 ppt range.
Incidentally, I had slowly acclimated (-1ppt/day) a small group of 5 shrimp to pure 0 ppt freshwater, where they have maintained activity and color for several months now, which is not surprising. But I'd suspect this is not ideal and may affect their longevity and/or reproduction, but that's still not a given as far as I know.
As for plants, I asked the question of brackish plants recently on another board for this exact purpose of adding plant life to a brackish opae ula tank. I was pointed to this site:
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php
Click on the "Brackish Adapatable" button and there ya go, for what it's worth anyway... I don't know how accurate it is, I can't find any specific salinity tolerance numbers, and java moss and watersprite are among the plants listed. I would think duckweed would grow in brackish water and was thinking about trying it myself, but maybe I don't want that plant taking nutrients and light away from algae I may try to grow in the tank. But I have observed my freshwater H. rubra seemingly enjoying climbing/grazing among duckweed roots.
Another tip I picked up was that the plants should be better off being allowed to completely establish themselves in the tank in pure freshwater first, and then only after that, salinity gradually raised to desired brackish levels over a few days.
Good luck!
Oh, and the Opae ula you buy may not necessarily come from anchialine ponds. Some might be bred, and I know of one situation where a man supplied our local Waikiki Aquarium, where I had been volunteering, with feeders because the shrimp were appearing in and clogging his outdoor drainage (or something to that effect). But as long as they're really the same species, one source probably isn't radically better than another.
At the lab I use at the university we have been keeping a healthy active population at about 14 parts per thousand (sorry, ppt is how I learned salinity... I don't even understand specific gravity
).It's not too uncommon for anchialine pools to be 2-12 ppt, so I would wager the shrimp would thrive in the 5-10 ppt range as well... though I have no solid evidence to recommend that.
Our population doesn't breed as far as we've noticed, but the tank really wasn't set up to be a breeding tank. Soon I plan on setting up a breeding environment and plan on getting an idea of the minimum salinity needed to have them breed. But first I have to get them breeding in the first place, and will probably start in the 12-15 ppt range.
Incidentally, I had slowly acclimated (-1ppt/day) a small group of 5 shrimp to pure 0 ppt freshwater, where they have maintained activity and color for several months now, which is not surprising. But I'd suspect this is not ideal and may affect their longevity and/or reproduction, but that's still not a given as far as I know.
As for plants, I asked the question of brackish plants recently on another board for this exact purpose of adding plant life to a brackish opae ula tank. I was pointed to this site:
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php
Click on the "Brackish Adapatable" button and there ya go, for what it's worth anyway... I don't know how accurate it is, I can't find any specific salinity tolerance numbers, and java moss and watersprite are among the plants listed. I would think duckweed would grow in brackish water and was thinking about trying it myself, but maybe I don't want that plant taking nutrients and light away from algae I may try to grow in the tank. But I have observed my freshwater H. rubra seemingly enjoying climbing/grazing among duckweed roots.
Another tip I picked up was that the plants should be better off being allowed to completely establish themselves in the tank in pure freshwater first, and then only after that, salinity gradually raised to desired brackish levels over a few days.
Good luck!
Oh, and the Opae ula you buy may not necessarily come from anchialine ponds. Some might be bred, and I know of one situation where a man supplied our local Waikiki Aquarium, where I had been volunteering, with feeders because the shrimp were appearing in and clogging his outdoor drainage (or something to that effect). But as long as they're really the same species, one source probably isn't radically better than another.
thanks for the info. i have one more question; how many should i put in a five gallon? i was first thinking of 5-10, but after browsing a few websites i got the impression that a five gallon could hold a lot more. don't get me wrong, i hate pushing the limits. i have 8 endlers for a 20 gallon. i just would like to ensure that i order enough to combinsate for doas and thoughs that may be too old.
sorry for all the questions, but i haven't been able to find any good websites on care for this species.
sorry for all the questions, but i haven't been able to find any good websites on care for this species.
-
chlorophyll
- Shrimp
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:22 am
- Location: Hawaii - USA
As I mentioned in Used's "How many Ghost shrimp in 2 gallon?" thread, with ample crawling area and crevices, etc, you'd be able to keep satisfied many more than 10 in a 5 gallon tank. If they're not overfed (they need very light feeding in an established environment, and will be very sensitive to overfeed) the bioload is very low for this species, and they are non aggressive and social creatures.
I'm sort of uncomfortable giving a number because I just don't know anything exact. But I would feel VERY comfortable with 25 in a tank that size. They are seen naturally in very dense numbers. Like the case with the man whose drainage was clogged with them ... that had to be a very dense but sustained population!
I have found this site very informative, although I never did find much on salinities.
[dead link]
There's clearly a strong business entity there, but it's an unbelievable wealth of information, informal reports, and testimonials from people who really care about keeping these shrimp well and not abusing them.
"Five opae-ula per quart of water is a relatively safe population density" is said here [dead link]
So that is a lot more than 25 in 4-5 gallons!
And I especially enjoyed their visit with Sam Gon III about captive breeding.
[dead link]
I'm sort of uncomfortable giving a number because I just don't know anything exact. But I would feel VERY comfortable with 25 in a tank that size. They are seen naturally in very dense numbers. Like the case with the man whose drainage was clogged with them ... that had to be a very dense but sustained population!
I have found this site very informative, although I never did find much on salinities.
[dead link]
There's clearly a strong business entity there, but it's an unbelievable wealth of information, informal reports, and testimonials from people who really care about keeping these shrimp well and not abusing them.
"Five opae-ula per quart of water is a relatively safe population density" is said here [dead link]
So that is a lot more than 25 in 4-5 gallons!
And I especially enjoyed their visit with Sam Gon III about captive breeding.
[dead link]
Keeping Halicondra Rubra
Currently I am using a 20 gal long tank to keep about 500 of them. The S/G is about1.015 or so, and I have a 4 inch sand bed with about 15 pounds of lava rock and 2-3 pounds of live rock. I also keep some calurpas and mangroves planted in the sand. The lava rock is the paving type from Home depot and they seem to like going in and between it all. I use saltwater plants. Some of it makes it, some it does not. I have had luck with chaemothorpa(brillo pad type), turtle grass, Calurpa Racemosa (The razor one). The ones that seemed to die off was Grape Calurpas, any red macro algae, grcileria. The mangroves seem to do well but i had about 50 percent dyeoff. (I got pods from the side of the road when i was at destin florida). The shrimp seemed to like the shrimp gro from Ocean rider, but also eat the decaying, dying calurapas.
I use a huge sponge filter, and one air wand for circulation and filteration. I top off with RO/DI water and have 2 X 36 watt fixture for lighting.
Ray
I use a huge sponge filter, and one air wand for circulation and filteration. I top off with RO/DI water and have 2 X 36 watt fixture for lighting.
Ray
Opae ula natural densities:
"The abundance of Halocaridina rubra in the Sailor's Hat pool is low. In most anchialine systems, H. rubra is one of the most common species with densities exceeding a thousand individuals per square meter of substratum (Brock, unpub. data). It has been hypothesized that the high densities in pools are the result of the relatively high productivity of the system that provides ample food resources (Brock, 1985). In contrast, food resources in the subterranean watertable beneath anchialine pools must be low and the abundance of shrimp in this setting is probably similarly low (Bailey-Brock and Brock, 1993)..."
Source: http://cramp.wcc.hawaii.edu/Study_Sites ... /CHAP5.asp
"The abundance of Halocaridina rubra in the Sailor's Hat pool is low. In most anchialine systems, H. rubra is one of the most common species with densities exceeding a thousand individuals per square meter of substratum (Brock, unpub. data). It has been hypothesized that the high densities in pools are the result of the relatively high productivity of the system that provides ample food resources (Brock, 1985). In contrast, food resources in the subterranean watertable beneath anchialine pools must be low and the abundance of shrimp in this setting is probably similarly low (Bailey-Brock and Brock, 1993)..."
Source: http://cramp.wcc.hawaii.edu/Study_Sites ... /CHAP5.asp
How many species exist in Halocaridina genus? Are all opae ula in our tanks the same species?:
http://www.auburn.edu/~santosr/pdf/Craf ... Poster.jpg
http://www.auburn.edu/~santosr/pdf/Craf ... Poster.jpg
Keep in mind that the anchialine ponds they live in have a lot more water than little home aquaria as they are connected to subterreanean water (i.e. groundwater) and the ocean through the porous lava rock. Hence, these population density numbers are quite misleading when it comes to home care of these shrimp. I would definitely not overcrowd them in captivity.Daudin wrote:Opae ula natural densities:
"In most anchialine systems, H. rubra is one of the most common species with densities exceeding a thousand individuals per square meter of substratum (Brock, unpub. data).
Thanks for the link. I know of one more species of Halocaridina, namely Halocaridina palahemo. Never seen one though.Daudin wrote:How many species exist in Halocaridina genus? Are all opae ula in our tanks the same species?:
http://www.auburn.edu/~santosr/pdf/Craf ... Poster.jpg
Update 8 May 2007
Well, once a couple of years ago I replied with a tank I had set up and I am quite proud of it actually.
I started with about 500 Rubra. I would take about 6-8 out a week to feed my horses and stopped after probably about a 100 since it seemed they declined rather rapidly. About 100-200 went to fellow hobbysts so that left me roughly 200 or so left.
My tank.
20 Gal long
3 inches of Caribsea Oolitic Aragonite Sand (I have reef and seahorse tanks)
About 20 pounds of Red-Hawain Lava Rock from Home Depot. (Sanitized and boiled before adding to the tank)
1 Orca 50K Sponge Filter (I think it is rated for a 50-75 Gal Tank)
1 75 Watt Heater
1 Tetra Deep water Air pump - one tube for the sponge filter and one for a bubblewand buried underneath about 1/2 inch of lava rock and too recirculate the heater (very important).
An eggcrate grate to cover the sponge filter for ease of removal but also to eliminate as many dead spots as I could.
Lit by a 2X55 Watt PC and had 3 Mangroves planted in the sand.
NH4 - 0
Nitrates - >10 ppm
SG- 1.015
Temp 75-78
pH- 8.0-8.3
Lessons Learned:
1. Be careful on water changes.
During the first year, I did weekly water changes of 2 gallons. I did try to match s/g and temp however since it kinda flucated I did a kinda close enough. Here is the trick I have learned.
a. I used aged water from my reef tanks. And I use RO water to "water it down" to the correct S/G.
b. Water changes went to about once a month to once every other month. These shrimp get used to certain nitrate level and only when it goes up should you change. Once in equilibrium, they don't like change.
c. On the make up water, once a month add a drop of an iodine supplement. I mean very very little. I will explain in a later message.
d. On the other ones, I add Kalkwasser about 1/2 cup to two gallons (My makeup buckets are the 2 gallon buckets from a dollar store...man they are so handy and easy to use). Usually I only make about about 1/2 gallon every other day or so so they get about 2-3 tablespoons of the clear kalkwasser liquid only. Try to pour this in an area not coverd by shrimp.
This was in June 2005.
All through 2005 - I
I started with about 500 Rubra. I would take about 6-8 out a week to feed my horses and stopped after probably about a 100 since it seemed they declined rather rapidly. About 100-200 went to fellow hobbysts so that left me roughly 200 or so left.
My tank.
20 Gal long
3 inches of Caribsea Oolitic Aragonite Sand (I have reef and seahorse tanks)
About 20 pounds of Red-Hawain Lava Rock from Home Depot. (Sanitized and boiled before adding to the tank)
1 Orca 50K Sponge Filter (I think it is rated for a 50-75 Gal Tank)
1 75 Watt Heater
1 Tetra Deep water Air pump - one tube for the sponge filter and one for a bubblewand buried underneath about 1/2 inch of lava rock and too recirculate the heater (very important).
An eggcrate grate to cover the sponge filter for ease of removal but also to eliminate as many dead spots as I could.
Lit by a 2X55 Watt PC and had 3 Mangroves planted in the sand.
NH4 - 0
Nitrates - >10 ppm
SG- 1.015
Temp 75-78
pH- 8.0-8.3
Lessons Learned:
1. Be careful on water changes.
During the first year, I did weekly water changes of 2 gallons. I did try to match s/g and temp however since it kinda flucated I did a kinda close enough. Here is the trick I have learned.
a. I used aged water from my reef tanks. And I use RO water to "water it down" to the correct S/G.
b. Water changes went to about once a month to once every other month. These shrimp get used to certain nitrate level and only when it goes up should you change. Once in equilibrium, they don't like change.
c. On the make up water, once a month add a drop of an iodine supplement. I mean very very little. I will explain in a later message.
d. On the other ones, I add Kalkwasser about 1/2 cup to two gallons (My makeup buckets are the 2 gallon buckets from a dollar store...man they are so handy and easy to use). Usually I only make about about 1/2 gallon every other day or so so they get about 2-3 tablespoons of the clear kalkwasser liquid only. Try to pour this in an area not coverd by shrimp.
This was in June 2005.
All through 2005 - I
Lessons Learned Continued
Lessons Learned
Sorry ran out of room on the last one.
Lesson 2
2. Bring Temperature up. My rubra never seemed active. I acidently brought temperature up to about 78-80 degrees during a water change. Boy their activity really increased. They stayed out a lot more now. And I noticed teeny ones.
Lesson 3
3. Tone down lighting. I fried my 2X55 Watt fixture ballast somehow. I had to put a 20 Watt flourscent fixture above the tank. My Mangroves had to be removed and one died but they relocated into one of my open reef tanks. It was enough light to keep some of the chaeto alive in the tank, and some of the nasty razor calurpa that I have been trying to remove from my reef setups. Now I see i probably have more than 200 of them. (About Sept 2006) Also the algae problem did not outrun the shrimp's ability to eat them before they became numerous. I scrape the tank about once a month to now (May 2007) every other month. The glass gets salt creep that I do have to clean though.
Lesson 4
4. Bring Salinity to about 1.010 to get them to breed. Remember the note about mixing fresh RO water with water from My SPS Tank. I am guessing that that larvae eat some of the minute critters from my reef setup. My nitrate is always less than 10 ppm in those setup. (I don't keep much fish, my threshold for pain is like 4 fish in a 75 gallon and I mean 1 yellow tang, a pair of clowns and a lawnmower blennie but I do love my clams and corals and horses which I won't keep in my clam tank since nitrates seem to go up with them and they can't handle the current, my horses are in lagoon reef tanks with lower flow)
I use RO to "cut" it to 1.008 - 1.011 or so. Since the water came from a reef it is already about 80 degrees. A 50 watt heater in a 2 gal bucket is perfect to heat up the ro water. Remember I add buffer and Kalk during make up water additions.
Lesson 5
5. I am guessing the water changes trigger the breeding. Every other water change it seems that I am getting a mass molting where I don't see any shrimp. They just disappear in the live rock or lava rock. (I put rocks covered in Razor Calurpa and the shrimp clean it off and I add it back to my reef tank) But about twice last fall I got a bunch of teeny ones pop up out of nowhere. I am probably back to up to 400 or so. This is after over a year and starting with 200 or so. Probably not a good track record since my horses would have ate them all without any opportunity to replenish the system.
Lesson 6
6. Due to the lighting change I feed them minute amounts of food twice a week. It is spirulina powder or DT's phytoplankton mixed in with two little fishes sea veggies. They seem to like the sea veggies and the teaspoon of dts or 1/2 teaspoon of spiruliina powder mixed in a cup of ro water seems to illicit a major feeding response.
It is now May, I have been feeding that regime since about December when the lighting would not support any real algae growth. I have now siphoned off shrimp for another tank and I am up to I am guessing at least 500 with about 100-200 as seahorse treats. I have also done one other thing. When I prepare my coral foods, I run the rinsing net through the shrimp tank so they get minute amounts of cyclopeeze, baby brine shrimp, golden pearls, selcon, etc. (I feed all tanks on the same days for the most part) I think that has made the population double again in under a year. I am not sure but calling them a strict herbivore is probably a misnomer. But meat products will spoil the water quickly. The trick to know what you can put it without rising nitrates. If nitrates rise about 20-30 ppm it seems they lose color, become lethargic and it takes a while to get them active and trying to breed again.
I will report more when I can.
Sorry ran out of room on the last one.
Lesson 2
2. Bring Temperature up. My rubra never seemed active. I acidently brought temperature up to about 78-80 degrees during a water change. Boy their activity really increased. They stayed out a lot more now. And I noticed teeny ones.
Lesson 3
3. Tone down lighting. I fried my 2X55 Watt fixture ballast somehow. I had to put a 20 Watt flourscent fixture above the tank. My Mangroves had to be removed and one died but they relocated into one of my open reef tanks. It was enough light to keep some of the chaeto alive in the tank, and some of the nasty razor calurpa that I have been trying to remove from my reef setups. Now I see i probably have more than 200 of them. (About Sept 2006) Also the algae problem did not outrun the shrimp's ability to eat them before they became numerous. I scrape the tank about once a month to now (May 2007) every other month. The glass gets salt creep that I do have to clean though.
Lesson 4
4. Bring Salinity to about 1.010 to get them to breed. Remember the note about mixing fresh RO water with water from My SPS Tank. I am guessing that that larvae eat some of the minute critters from my reef setup. My nitrate is always less than 10 ppm in those setup. (I don't keep much fish, my threshold for pain is like 4 fish in a 75 gallon and I mean 1 yellow tang, a pair of clowns and a lawnmower blennie but I do love my clams and corals and horses which I won't keep in my clam tank since nitrates seem to go up with them and they can't handle the current, my horses are in lagoon reef tanks with lower flow)
I use RO to "cut" it to 1.008 - 1.011 or so. Since the water came from a reef it is already about 80 degrees. A 50 watt heater in a 2 gal bucket is perfect to heat up the ro water. Remember I add buffer and Kalk during make up water additions.
Lesson 5
5. I am guessing the water changes trigger the breeding. Every other water change it seems that I am getting a mass molting where I don't see any shrimp. They just disappear in the live rock or lava rock. (I put rocks covered in Razor Calurpa and the shrimp clean it off and I add it back to my reef tank) But about twice last fall I got a bunch of teeny ones pop up out of nowhere. I am probably back to up to 400 or so. This is after over a year and starting with 200 or so. Probably not a good track record since my horses would have ate them all without any opportunity to replenish the system.
Lesson 6
6. Due to the lighting change I feed them minute amounts of food twice a week. It is spirulina powder or DT's phytoplankton mixed in with two little fishes sea veggies. They seem to like the sea veggies and the teaspoon of dts or 1/2 teaspoon of spiruliina powder mixed in a cup of ro water seems to illicit a major feeding response.
It is now May, I have been feeding that regime since about December when the lighting would not support any real algae growth. I have now siphoned off shrimp for another tank and I am up to I am guessing at least 500 with about 100-200 as seahorse treats. I have also done one other thing. When I prepare my coral foods, I run the rinsing net through the shrimp tank so they get minute amounts of cyclopeeze, baby brine shrimp, golden pearls, selcon, etc. (I feed all tanks on the same days for the most part) I think that has made the population double again in under a year. I am not sure but calling them a strict herbivore is probably a misnomer. But meat products will spoil the water quickly. The trick to know what you can put it without rising nitrates. If nitrates rise about 20-30 ppm it seems they lose color, become lethargic and it takes a while to get them active and trying to breed again.
I will report more when I can.