Have been lurking for a long time..... Now need help....

[Carolina]

I dont have much exp with brackish tanks yet (do have a bit with freshwater)

It looks like you have too many nutrients and lights on for too long.

Mustafa is right that you cant grow things on light alone, but it certainly appears that you have enuff biological... "stuff" in there for things to use and then take advantage of lights.

On the first page you mentioned changing the light cycle from 12 to 10 to even 8 hrs. Sometimes even this is too much. If your lights are too bright you get too much growth of everything, and if they are not bright enough leaving them on for longer is the worst thing you can do. Plants (and some macro algae) need a proper repository cycle with lights off. When you leave them on past 8 hrs (I have found that often even just 6 is better) you only help algae and other muck out compete plants and plant like (macro) algae. I know this is pretty common knowledge among aquarists, but sometimes we overthink things. Very little of that "gunk" is gonna grow if it cant get the energy (light) that it needs.

Since theres way more than enough for shrimp/snails to eat I say go on a limited-only-4-hrs-on cycle for a while and see what that does.

I have considered this... And even doing a complete blackout for 3-4 days in case this is an algae bloom.... I was told by mustafa to keep the lights at the regular 12 hours cycle, so that's what I am doing.
Like I said, the tank hasn't been fed since January, and before that, not much, really.... But.... Here we are.
Thing is, I never had this brown cloud in this tank.
This cloud was on my other tank, and was killing my livestock. I decided to transfer, very carefully my shrimp and snails to this tank in order to save them..... A couple of days later.... BAM! The same brown cloud that was in the other tank was now in this one. And growing rapidly.
I don't know what it is, and how to get rid of it. It's a beast. I had to completely get rid of the other tank and start from scratch. The other tank is now going through cycling, and I am trying to figure out how to save this one without transferring the livestock.... As I did it once and this thing was carried along. The last thing I want is to go through it again.... And again... And again...

[Mustafa]

Reducing the duration of the lights is at most going to just temporarily help. My lights are always on 12 hours a day and I don't have any issues. The issue here is, again, that *somehow* nutrients are entering the tank. Nutrients don't just come from food. At this point it will have to be coming from either the bacteria and possible other ingredients from the Stability bottle or the water you use to make your brackish water. The shrimp barely produce any ammonia at all...but you've been adding bacteria there every single day for several days. If the bacteria can't find food (ammonia, nitrite etc.) they will just die...and "pollute" the tank with nutrients, which then feed the nuisance algae and bacteria (including the brown "cloud"). There is also a possibility that either the make-up water (I hope it's RO water) for the brackish water or the salt mix itself has either nitrates/ammonia/phosphates and that's an additional source for nutrients.

Other that "nutrients are somehow entering the tank" I can't really say anything more. And, again, my solution would be to just wait it out...either way your shrimp seem to be dying (no matter what you do), so you might as well try "my" method of doing nothing (and removing that filter). It worked for me every time (given enough time and patience). You won't be seeing your shrimp for a while (because they'll be in hiding waiting for better times)...but c'est la vie.

I'd recommend stopping adding bacteria to the tank, making some *fresh* brackish water with RO water and replacing most of the current water with it (and possibly getting a new salt mix...you can test your current salt mix for nitrates, ammonia and phosphates before you do that, though, if there are no nutrients, then no reason to change the salt mix.). Then remove the filter and and leave the tank with the shrimp and snails alone. You've tried everything else...it didn't work.

[Carolina]

Wrong tank mustafa!
I haven't been adding bacteria to this tank.... Nooooooo.....
I have added bacteria to tank #2,which is doing well... Just because I had to transfer my nerite snails to it in a pinch as they were dying,and the tank was obviously not cycled. (remember I had to completely re do it from scratch and cycle it again?) I am not adding purify, or any, any kind of bacteria to this tank (the original tank) . The salt "mixture" is a salt I buy at a reef store.... Never had problems with it.... If you think I should change, I have instant Ocean here too, I can do a big water change, if you think that would help... It didn't help when I had this brown cloud on the other tank.... If you remember I did a 90% water change and it was back on the next day.... I wasn't sure if a shock would occur changing salts like that...
I am adding NOTHING to this tank. No food, no bacteria, nada, nothing, zilch.
The water I add is not even RO anymore, as I was afraid of that too.... So I changed to distilled. I did do my brackish water (oroginally) with RO water from the reef store, but like I said I have since changed to distilled.
That's why I keep saying I am at a loss...
The filter was just added because when I did nothing, and truly, that was my plan, everything started dying, and dying fast. It was not a matter of hiding... I was finding snails, Shrimp, chaetamorpha, dead at an alarming rate. Now they are not dying.... At least that is better.... But the problem is still there.... And I am still at a loss, and don't know what to do with about it. From yesterday to today, for example, when I decreased the filter Intake, the water started getting bad again, and the shrimp clearly unhealthy.
I tried doing nothing.... Really really did.... And I am adding NOTHING to this tank.... Not even the big snails are there anymore.... Yet.... This thing is growing like there is nothing capable of stopping it.....
:'(

[Carolina]

This is very disheartening... I just feel I am punching a tip of a knife with my fist.
I maybe this is just hopeless.... And there is really nothing I can do about it besides watching them die...
It sucks.
Well.... That's that.

[Mustafa]

Now they are not dying.... At least that is better.... But the problem is still there....

It gets confusing to keep your tanks apart as you've had problems with both..and similar problems. If they are not dying, then just wait...even if you think that "things are getting worse" because there is more of a brown cloud or something. That's really all you can do. Somehow nutrients got into the tank (i'm not there so I can't look at the whole picture of what really happened and what might be responsible). Those nutrients need to be used up..and yes..even that "brown cloud" is using those nutrients. Once they run out of nutrients things will get better. And you removing the filter and shrimp dying may simply have been a coincidence. Almost every single Supershrimp tank out there (including mine) runs without filters.

[Carolina]

Hi Mustafa, take a look at the pictures I posted yesterday for tank #1.
That's the tank.
I explain exactly what's happening now, with pictures.
The brown cloud only happens now if I lower or turn the purigen tank off. It seems to compromise the oxygen levels in the water.... As when it shows up, everything starts getting sick.
With that said, after adding purigen, that cloud lowered into the substrate, rocks as a thick layer of goop.
The walls now are covered in green algae.
Anyways, look at the pictures, it has detailed explanation in there.
Thanks

[Mustafa]

I looked at the post and pictures...I'm familiar with "brown clouds" of microorganisms and it being at various levels in the aquarium. I used to have that several years ago. My shrimp used to happily swim through it, too. I can only repeat that the root source for any problems are nutrients causing ammonia spikes and/or oxygen depletion. Solution: wait it out. I'm not sure what kind of help you want, but that is *really* how I solved *all* of my problems in the past and now have 150,000+ Supershrimp (and yes, some shrimp may continue dying while you wait until things stabilize). I have been breeding these guys for 11 years, so I know a thing or two about how to properly keep and breed them and solve problems. Unless there is something acutely toxic (usually some kind of toxic chemical that found its way into the tank) there is really nothing else you can do but wait. There is really no magical solution to this that involves filters or products or other types of intervention.

If anyone else wants to chime in because they disagree and have solved their problems with major interventions of one kind or another, please do so. I *truly* don't know what else to say anymore.

[shrimpede]

Hi Carolina,

Hope you or anyone else don't mind if I cut in suddenly. I just can't help but feels terrible that the shrimps are dying. I've no solution that I can offer you to resolve your issue. My only thought now is with the shrimps survival until you manage to resolve this in the future. Here's what I'll do.

As understand, currently the shrimps are still in the tank that is having issue with the water. To prevent any more death occurring, I would

1. get a container/pail or whatever that I can get hold of
2. Mix a new batch of the brackish water for the container/pail
3. remove all the shrimps from the tank in this container/pail.
Note: The container/pail should on contain the brackish water and the shrimps. Nothing else. No substrate or decor or moss or chaeto since it is unknown where the source of the issue is at the moment.

Once this is done, at the very least you don't have to worry/panic over the shrimps death.

From here on, you can decide to do 2 things. Either you wait out the issue that's currently with the tank or you can discard all the content of the tank and put in new one. I would discard everything (except the tank and filter but would not reuse the filter media within) and redo. Do note that anything that you decide to add in the tank, you need to ensure that you clean them properly. Especially Marimo Ball as it can trap a lot of waste within. I would avoid using anything that's artificial, wood or plastic.

Try and keep the tank simple. Simple can be nice as well. Attached is a 1 ft tank. Unfortunately, that's not mine.
Hope everything will be fine in the end.

Have a nice day.

IMG_2964.JPG (252.13 KiB) Viewed 1526 times

[Mustafa]

Hope you or anyone else don't mind if I cut in suddenly.

I, for sure, don't mind.

[Carolina]

I have a small, and good update.
Purigen seems to be working.
The water is completely clear. I do have lots and lots of algae and that gunk, but....
Amazingly with the increasing of purigen, the front glass is clear again, the brown gunk in it disappeared.
I did find one dead shrimp - I have a feeling it was the one who looked sickly the day I turned purigen off.
All other shrimp and snails are doing fine and feeding on the algae.
I am manually removing the decaying matter I can see on the substrate, also cleaning both Moss balls.
Little by little we will get there, I think.
I also decided to reduce the light to 4 hours a day just to see what happens.... As I see it, at this point it's a trial and error process.

[Carolina]

Hi Carolina,

Hope you or anyone else don't mind if I cut in suddenly. I just can't help but feels terrible that the shrimps are dying. I've no solution that I can offer you to resolve your issue. My only thought now is with the shrimps survival until you manage to resolve this in the future. Here's what I'll do.

As understand, currently the shrimps are still in the tank that is having issue with the water. To prevent any more death occurring, I would

1. get a container/pail or whatever that I can get hold of
2. Mix a new batch of the brackish water for the container/pail
3. remove all the shrimps from the tank in this container/pail.
Note: The container/pail should on contain the brackish water and the shrimps. Nothing else. No substrate or decor or moss or chaeto since it is unknown where the source of the issue is at the moment.

Once this is done, at the very least you don't have to worry/panic over the shrimps death.

From here on, you can decide to do 2 things. Either you wait out the issue that's currently with the tank or you can discard all the content of the tank and put in new one. I would discard everything (except the tank and filter but would not reuse the filter media within) and redo. Do note that anything that you decide to add in the tank, you need to ensure that you clean them properly. Especially Marimo Ball as it can trap a lot of waste within. I would avoid using anything that's artificial, wood or plastic.

Try and keep the tank simple. Simple can be nice as well. Attached is a 1 ft tank. Unfortunately, that's not mine.
Hope everything will be fine in the end.

Have a nice day.

IMG_2964.JPG

Thanks, please do jump in!
I've been thinking about that a lot....
Of course it would be risky placing the shrimp in an uncycled tank.... But I did think about quarantining them if the deaths continue.
Funny you posted this tank.... The tank I am cycling is going to be very simple too, and I just ordered a bunch of marimo Moss to use instead of chaetamorpha, as I am not being too Lucky with them at the moment.
By the way, the filter in the tank you posted is an uv filter.... I have one of them.... I tossed in the trash.... Just a note...

[shrimpede]

Hi Carolina,

That's a tank meant for other purpose. Was thinking that it is a good one to use as an example of nice and simple and of course the uv filter should not be use at all for opae ula tank.

Not cycling the tank is risky but I would think it is better than them currently in your tank with issue and they are dying. It's just temporary housing if you shift them to another container. Even without cycling the tank, they can survive for few weeks to few months.

Hope everything is going well once your new setup is ready. Do remember to wash the marimo ball thoroughly by squeezing it in clean water. You will be surprise how dirty the water will become.

Happy shrimping.

[Carolina]

I do wash the marimo balls often in brackish water.... I've had them for as long as I had my tank. You can't squeeze them too much as they need oxygen and water to reach their core.

[Carolina]

I looked at the post and pictures...I'm familiar with "brown clouds" of microorganisms and it being at various levels in the aquarium. I used to have that several years ago. My shrimp used to happily swim through it, too.

Given that I lost about 30 out of 60 shrimp that were in that tank to that brown cloud in just a few days, I don't think we are talking about the same thing Mustafa.... My shrimp were definitely not happily swimming through it.... Things seem to be better now, thank goodness, but that thing was not benign.

[Carolina]

The tank has been getting better and better with purigen/chemi pure elite (for carbon).
No deaths, clear water, and the snails have been doing their job cleaning the substrate and the algae on the glass.
So today I decided to test how the tank would do without the filter.
As soon as I turned it off, the shrimp came out of hiding.... They started also filter feeding on the top of the water.... All seemed fine.... Until that a few hours later Bam! A sick shrimp.
I really don't think this is a coincidence. It's the second time this happens.
I removed him from the tank as there was already a snail happily coming on his direction, and put him on a small tank to see if he can recover.
Turned the filter on again....
I don't know when I am going to be able to run this tank without a filter, but I have a feeling it's going to be a while.
There is something toxic that has to get out of there.