so indecisive about a substrate!

[marusempai]

On a closely related topic, is it possible to have too much leaf litter? Like, if I covered the entire bottom of a tank with soaked oak leaves rather than gravel or what have you, would that cause a problem?

[Mustafa]

On a closely related topic, is it possible to have too much leaf litter? Like, if I covered the entire bottom of a tank with soaked oak leaves rather than gravel or what have you, would that cause a problem?

As long as the leaves have been soaked in a different container and the tannins and other things in the leaves have leached out I don't see any problem with that. I have not experienced any "upper limit" in terms of number of leaves to be put in a tank.

[lampeye]

The only problem would be "invisible shrimp." My 10 gal cherry tank has one piece of driftwood COVERED with Java fern. It contains 18 shrimp (no more losses after the first two - whew!), but it's rare to see more than 6 at any time. A thick layer of leaf litter would likely produce the same effect.

[Kenshin]

Hi JohnPaul,

I guess it all depends on what else do you put in your RCS tank. Do you want it to be planted or just without plants? If you want plants, I would recommend good plant substrate such as Flourite or Eco-Complete. However, let your tank get cycled first with the plants and the substrate (for about at least a week to 1 month with weekly water changes depending on if you use an old filter). If you plan on not having any plants, just decorations such as wood (plastic or the real thing), and rocks (does not contain calcium), then I believe just plain sand would do the trick. For RCS, you can just use the black Tahitian Moon Sand (but basically no plants).

[Neonshrimp]

If you plan on not having any plants, just decorations such as wood (plastic or the real thing), and rocks (does not contain calcium), then I believe just plain sand would do the trick. For RCS, you can just use the black Tahitian Moon Sand (but basically no plants).

Kenshin, have you found any particular advantage to having this set up? Is it for the visibility or more productive breeding?

Thanks.

[Kenshin]

Visibitily. For my Snowball and Green shrimps, I use Seachem Sand Oxyn. That seems to buffer the water quiet well to alkaline state (pH wise). And the productive breeding results is very obvious compare to just other substrates. Please be aware I use this only for the shrimps that prefer a higher pH.

Plus, I do not need to worry much after that even after numerous water changes (1 time a week - 40% water changes). And to reassure that, I also add in several coral chips in it.

[marusempai]

The only problem would be "invisible shrimp." {snip} A thick layer of leaf litter would likely produce the same effect.

If that's all, that sounds good to me... as long as they're healthy, and I can see some, I'm happy. What I was really (and irrationally) concerned about was fungus... I've always been a bit paranoid about the stuff, and that picture of the cherry shrimp with the fungus under her swimmers freaked me out pretty badly. Fortunately, that just means I'm going to be more careful/paranoid than usual in my upcoming shrimp only set up.

[klkelly]

Sorry - I don't mean to hijack your thread but I've been thinking about this for a couple of weeks.

I'm still waiting until the tank I have is ready for shrimp. I put black tahitian moon sand in. The tank has a ton of pond snails that came with the plants. I don't have the heart to cull them and the population has grown lots. (I'm going to ask my husband to off them soon).

They poop a ton and the gravel vac doesn't seem to do a good job with the sand. Even sucking up the first cm or two of sand doesn't seem to work. If I had it to do over again I'd go with the pea gravel like what was in the picture on the first page.

What is your guys secret to keeping the sand debris free?

Karrie

[Neonshrimp]

I've always been a bit paranoid about the stuff, and that picture of the cherry shrimp with the fungus under her swimmers freaked me out pretty badly.

It was quite a shocker but like Mustafa and some of us said, this is such a rare occurance that for most of us it was the first time we had seen this. Let's hope it is the last time.

[badflash]

What is your guys secret to keeping the sand debris free?

Karrie

I don't think it can be done. I have a tank with black TMS and it looks like crap, litterally. I'm just waiting for some energy, or maybe a round2it and I'll break it down. I'm soaking some pea gravel in sugar now. By this time next month I should have some nice black inert pebbles to show.

[Mustafa]

On a closely related topic, is it possible to have too much leaf litter? Like, if I covered the entire bottom of a tank with soaked oak leaves rather than gravel or what have you, would that cause a problem?

As long as the leaves have been soaked in a different container and the tannins and other things in the leaves have leached out I don't see any problem with that. I have not experienced any "upper limit" in terms of number of leaves to be put in a tank.

Just wanted to sneak in a "on a second thought" note.... Yes, on a second thought you *can* have too much leaf litter in a tank. If you put too many leaves in your tank at the same time and also have very few shrimp in there, then the leaves will break down all at the same time and create *too many* organic particles that will make a mess out of your tank. Not to mention that you will have *too many* bacteria etc. growing (think bacterial bloom), which will adversely affect your shrimp.

So, for most purposes one or two leaves should be a good way to start out. Once those are gone you can put a few new ones in there. After all we don't have the benefit of flowing water in our tanks that alleviates excesses of any kind in nature. Tanks tend to accumulate even the good stuff to such a degree that it starts creating problems.

So...in one sentence....no...it's not a good idea to fill the bottom with leaves in the long run although it works just fine in the short run.

[marusempai]

Ok, I thought that might be the case... I wasn't really planning on a leaf bottom tank, but rather mostly rocks from my local creek and a leaf litter area at the front. I was trying to figue out how to not screw it up... I've never done a shrimp tank before, and am afraid of accidentally killing them. :worry:

[ToddnBecka]

I'm soaking some pea gravel in sugar now. By this time next month I should have some nice black inert pebbles to show.

New one on me, would you explain a bit please?

[Mustafa]

What is your guys secret to keeping the sand debris free?

Karrie

I don't think it can be done.

In my sand substrate tanks I don't have the problem of accumulating debris as my shrimp constantly go through any debris that accumulates. Hence, debris is turned into food and water-born particles, which are removed by the filter and/or water changes. It really works...my sand bottom tanks are not any "dirtier" than my other tanks.

[Neonshrimp]

By debris are we talking about shrimp waste? If we are, I can see the waste/debris on the bottom of my tank. Should I leave it at the bottom instead of removing it during water changes? Will it be broken down by the shrimp in time?