Agressive ghosts?
Moderator: Mustafa
Agressive ghosts?
Does anyone know how aggressive ghost shrimp are? because I recently recieved some redfronted/red nose shrimp and some sand shrimp (machrobrachium mirabile) and I've noticed that some of my ghost shrimps are hunting and annoying the new arrivals. They run up to them, and then the new ones jump away. Are the new guys In danger? Because a few weeks ago i saw my ghost shrimp munching on half of 1 of my 2 cherry shrimp. i only have 1 left. I have 4 sand shrimp , and they shouldn't pose a threeat to anyone else, should they?
Also I will update in a week or two regarding the health of the new arrivals.
Also according to the shrimp varieties page, the red nose shrimp is clear, but my new arrivals seem to have a red coloring. Is this normal? I'm thinking it was a food additive, which means it will fade eventually. It does look quite striking though.
Also I will update in a week or two regarding the health of the new arrivals.
Also according to the shrimp varieties page, the red nose shrimp is clear, but my new arrivals seem to have a red coloring. Is this normal? I'm thinking it was a food additive, which means it will fade eventually. It does look quite striking though.
- Neonshrimp
- Master Shrimp Nut
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First off, glad to hear that you have gotten new shrimp
Ghost shrimp are Macros and may behave like the typical Macro as quoted below from the article "FAQ for Newmembers":
Ghost shrimp are Macros and may behave like the typical Macro as quoted below from the article "FAQ for Newmembers":
I have keep Ghost shrimp that have gotten along with tank mate and I have had a few that were just down right aggressive! It is just the luck of the draw I guess.Macros can be aggressive towards each other and other species of shrimp and fish. Many are predatory or opportunistic and will maim or eat dwarf shrimp if they get a hold of them.
Within the United States, typical ghost shrimp are actually Palaemonetes, though shipment "contamination" and mislabeling do occur. Though they are fellow Palaemonids, species of this genus (at least those native to the U.S.) are generally more docile than your run-of-the-mill Macrobrachium.Neonshrimp wrote:Ghost shrimp are Macros and may behave like the typical Macro as quoted below from the article "FAQ for Newmembers":
- Neonshrimp
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- YuccaPatrol
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- badflash
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It completely depends on the temperment of the ghost shrimp. I had some that actively hunted and killed my RCS and Bumblebees. I saw it several times even with healthy shrimp. If the shrimp got too close and was distracted the ghost would strike and kill instantly. I would not chance expensive shrimp in the company of a ghost.
Here is my take on this since we discussed this in another thread earlier this year:badflash wrote:It completely depends on the temperment of the ghost shrimp. I had some that actively hunted and killed my RCS and Bumblebees. I saw it several times even with healthy shrimp. If the shrimp got too close and was distracted the ghost would strike and kill instantly. I would not chance expensive shrimp in the company of a ghost.
viewtopic.php?t=1288&start=0
In my experience Palaemonetes paludosus is not capable of holding on to and eating a healthy, adult shrimp.
- badflash
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No offence intended, but after a certain point I stop beating a dead horse. You have your observations, I have mine. I'm sure both are based on what we've observed first hand. Healthy groups can agree to disagree.
My point being, these shrimp are wonderful and should be treated with respect. All the same I don't put RCS or Drarf Cajuns in with my M. Rosenbergii. I think respect for the agressive capability of Palaemonetes paludosus needs to be considered.
Start off giving them their own tank. If you want to experiment and add some other species, do so on a limited basis.
My experience was not positive and I would not expose a $7 shrimp to the possibility of being eaten by a 10 cent shrimp. What I saw was a healthy Bumblebee shrimp killed instantly by a ghost. No holding was needed. The bite to the neck was all it took. Baby RCS shrimp never had a clew
My point being, these shrimp are wonderful and should be treated with respect. All the same I don't put RCS or Drarf Cajuns in with my M. Rosenbergii. I think respect for the agressive capability of Palaemonetes paludosus needs to be considered.
Start off giving them their own tank. If you want to experiment and add some other species, do so on a limited basis.
My experience was not positive and I would not expose a $7 shrimp to the possibility of being eaten by a 10 cent shrimp. What I saw was a healthy Bumblebee shrimp killed instantly by a ghost. No holding was needed. The bite to the neck was all it took. Baby RCS shrimp never had a clew
Nobody will get offended just by differences of opinion....I hope, although I do smell some "offendedness" in your reply above.badflash wrote:No offence intended, but after a certain point I stop beating a dead horse. You have your observations, I have mine. I'm sure both are based on what we've observed first hand. Healthy groups can agree to disagree.
I don't see any dead horse here by the way. I'm also not saying that any given observation is worth more than any other single observation. What I am saying is that 99.999999% of the people that actually ever kept american glass shrimp with dwarf shrimp haver never reported a glass shrimp actually killing an adult dwarf shrimp. This is something that can be repeatedly proven in any given experiment. I have kept glass shrimp with a colony of red cherries before and the glass shrimp did not even try to attack them. Right now I have a few red cherries and a few amanos in with the glass shrimp and there is absolutely no aggression towards any shrimp, except during feeding when the glass shrimp go crazy for food...but that's not hostile aggression but simply greed. Sure...they are able to hold on to and consume hatchlings and small juvenile dwarf shrimp. But adults?
Once you get over your recent disaster I dare you to buy some glass shrimp and put a few adult red cherries in with them. I can guarantee you that the red cherries will not be hunted down and eaten. How about this....if you actually see a glass shrimp hunt down and eat a healthy red cherry shrimp I will send you 10 snowball shrimp for free! I'll trust in your honesty when reporting such an event.
I'm not saying you did not see what you saw, but I am keeping the possibility open that you might have missed something that was crucial to the outcome of your observation. Plus, when you give advice to people on the behavior of a given shrimp, you don't go and tell them about the one, incredibly rare and exceptional observation (in this case unique), but you tell them how this shrimp usually behaves.
Finally, when you tell a story, even if true and observed, that sounds physically improbable, then you should not take offense when others doubt your story. No shrimp, even the largest macros, have the capability to just chomp down on anything alive with their mouths without holding on to it with their claws. If you ever find a macro that has lost all its claws (even the small "hands" that search for food) in a fight and hence cannot hold on to anything, I again dare you to put a few red cherries in there and report back to us if the red cherries get chomped down and eaten. Again, I'll guarantee you they won't. I'll give you another 10 shrimp of a species of your choice if that happens. I have observed macros in such a situation. They do survive by attempting to eat things directly with their mouths (they even graze on hair algae that way), but they have trouble even holding on to a moving (due to filter flow) piece of pellet, let alone a moving, zipping healthy shrimp. Their mouths are just not made for chomping down and killing animals. That's what their claws are for.
Anyway...that's all I am going to say about this at this point. After all, an observation should be repeatable for it to be considered "gospel." If you and others can repeatedly report back that a glass shrimp can just chomp on a an adult dwarf shrimp, even without holding on to it, then we can try to explain how these shrimp even physically do that. Until then your observation will remain a freak incident that can probably be explained by some unobservable factors. Wouldn't be the first time (and not the last time) that something not directly observable accounts for a certain outcome. At least in scientific circles (and I hope more and more in the hobby, too) someone with a completely new theory, especially one that seems to go against all conventional wisdom, has the burden of proof and the burden of presenting repeatable experimental setups, so others can repeat his/her observations and (hopefully) confirm his/her theory. Such a person should not get offended by people not believing him right away. After all no offense is intended...it's all just healthy scepticism and part of the scientific process.
This kind of reminds me of some people claiming that their amanos literally *jumped* on some unsuspecting red cherries, wrapped their legs around them so they can't escape and consumed them. These people will swear that that is what they observed. Do you necessarily believe them right away without any reservations? Hardly. There is just something amiss in this story.
Last edited by Mustafa on Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wow. the ghost shrimp I saw eating the cherry shrimp was my large male (same one causing the problems) and it had not only been eating the cherry, it had the cherry in one of its claws, and its grip looked pretty strong. there were no signs of decay on the shrimp, but there was an indent where it's claws were. I think my shrimp is not attcking because of hunger, but rather being territorial. It is the king of the tank, and often chases away the other ghosts by raising it claws, then the other will raise its claws and he charges. I'd have to say that they do have their own personalities, and that some are just plain agressive. I won't move them, however, because some of the new arrivals are likely to die off, and they are my cleanup crew.
Also I keep reffering to my shrimp as a cherry shrimp, but it is actually an all red/ with a little black morph of crs. I call it a cherry shrimp because I bought it under the name "cherry fire shrimp". I'm hoping I can stike up a balance between 7.5 and 8.0 so that all the shrimp can live in relative comfort, although this is far from optimal for crs. The crs is doing well now because I just had a PH crash because of nitrates and soft water. I just put in a small handful of crushed coral, but it hasn't kicked in yet.....
As for the origin of the ghost shrimp, the place i bought them from says they are farm raised, but I don't know what ghost shrimp or region they descended from.
Also I keep reffering to my shrimp as a cherry shrimp, but it is actually an all red/ with a little black morph of crs. I call it a cherry shrimp because I bought it under the name "cherry fire shrimp". I'm hoping I can stike up a balance between 7.5 and 8.0 so that all the shrimp can live in relative comfort, although this is far from optimal for crs. The crs is doing well now because I just had a PH crash because of nitrates and soft water. I just put in a small handful of crushed coral, but it hasn't kicked in yet.....
As for the origin of the ghost shrimp, the place i bought them from says they are farm raised, but I don't know what ghost shrimp or region they descended from.
AHA!
I would suggest you have what is called a "Chameleon" shrimp viewtopic.php?t=2179
Look in the second batch of fuzzy pictures and tell me if that is what your shrimp looks like.
Or if it is not, look at the Macrobrachium Type Palaemonid Shrimp (Longarm Shrimp) in the Shrimp Varieties page.
TKD
The Ghost shrimp that Mustafa and badflash are uhmmm "discussing" about is simply to small to do what you’re describing.the ghost shrimp I saw eating the cherry shrimp was my large male (same one causing the problems) and it had not only been eating the cherry, it had the cherry in one of its claws, and its grip looked pretty strong.
I would suggest you have what is called a "Chameleon" shrimp viewtopic.php?t=2179
Look in the second batch of fuzzy pictures and tell me if that is what your shrimp looks like.
Or if it is not, look at the Macrobrachium Type Palaemonid Shrimp (Longarm Shrimp) in the Shrimp Varieties page.
TKD
It looks almost like the first 3 pictures. it is clear and has purple-ish dark lines on some of its segments. If it is a baby macro, then how did it get mixed in with farm raised ghosts? I will continue watching. It seems to have settled down a bit. I just saw it run after something in the water, and it turned out to be a shell from a sand shrimp. I hope it doesn't get caught in this vulnerable state. There is no way I can snap a good pic with my camera, but its claws don't seem to be much bigger than my others. I do remember seeing it with a firm grasp on the midsection of the crs in it's left claw. I remember it perfectly. you could even see the meat from the crs because its "head' was bitten off. Maybe you missed it but I am alking about a crs which was probably a little more than half an inch long. (I am bad at estimating size but it couldn't have been more than an inch) my male is only about 2 inches long.
Also just saw a shell of a red nose shrimp and a meaty piece of a sand shrimp, though it is possible it is just a shell. If not I don't think it was killed as the place i got them from isn't a very well liked or reputable seller.
one last thing. I did get those fish I talked about in the other post, the red rasboras. two of them went missing in a day. No corpse to speak of. They were in great condition when I got them and just dissapeared. assumed eaten. I think that was done by the same shrimp. If this is a macro, then I have no where to separate it to. the only other tank in the house is my african frog, and I don't want either to be in danger. I'm going to look for a partition, or a something to separate it for a while till i can identify it.
[edit] Okay it is being very aggressive now. it is literally swimming after the red nose shrimp, which, as you may know, swim to get around. I've also noticed that my other ghost shrimp swim with their legs kind of curled up, while he swim with them outstretched. Everything so far is darting out of it's grasp, but it isn't giving up. I don't have anything to partition it, so does anyone have an idea for a homemade holder? I was thinking a plastic pasta strainer, but it has been washed in soap, so it would leech chemicals, right? I was thinking maybe a net hung over the tank, but it could crawl out.
Also just saw a shell of a red nose shrimp and a meaty piece of a sand shrimp, though it is possible it is just a shell. If not I don't think it was killed as the place i got them from isn't a very well liked or reputable seller.
one last thing. I did get those fish I talked about in the other post, the red rasboras. two of them went missing in a day. No corpse to speak of. They were in great condition when I got them and just dissapeared. assumed eaten. I think that was done by the same shrimp. If this is a macro, then I have no where to separate it to. the only other tank in the house is my african frog, and I don't want either to be in danger. I'm going to look for a partition, or a something to separate it for a while till i can identify it.
[edit] Okay it is being very aggressive now. it is literally swimming after the red nose shrimp, which, as you may know, swim to get around. I've also noticed that my other ghost shrimp swim with their legs kind of curled up, while he swim with them outstretched. Everything so far is darting out of it's grasp, but it isn't giving up. I don't have anything to partition it, so does anyone have an idea for a homemade holder? I was thinking a plastic pasta strainer, but it has been washed in soap, so it would leech chemicals, right? I was thinking maybe a net hung over the tank, but it could crawl out.