Need Help with a Difficult Fish/Shrimp mixing

[BlauerDrakken]

First, a little background, so you'll understand where I'm coming from;
About 2.5 years ago, my Air Conditioner (in my house) went out in the middle of an Arizona August. It was not fixed for 3 days, and my 100 gallon living reef tank had no chiller. Long story short, after 3 days of 80+ degree water temperatures, my beautiful reef and all it's inhabitants died. All but one. A Catfish I had just recently acclimated over from freshwater. George, as I named him, has been the sole resident of that tank since then. He's now a little over 7" in length. I could not bare to part with him. I also could not stand looking at the skeletal remains of what used to be my pride and joy any longer. I could not afford (nor morally justify) replacing the $35,000.00 in livestock that had perished. So, I weighed my options and decided that I would break down the tank and make it a freshwater plant tank. I have acclimated George back over to freshwater in a small 5 gallon holding tank. He hates the confinement, but he's doing just fine otherwise.

I am now, and always have been a true sucker for inverts. My reef tank used to be literally crawling with inverts of every shape and size. I'd like a similar experience with my plant tank. The problem is, that george was too small to eat anything when the reef was alive, and since then he's grown much larger. I want shrimp and crabs and such living happily amungst my plants, and I want other fish to be swimming about adding a sense of vibrance and life to the tank. I don't want to be continually throwing shrimp to impending doom, though.

This is the first "plant" tank that I have ever attempted. I need loads of advice on how to proceed. Does anyone have suggestions on what species of shrimp, crabs, fish, etc I can add to establish a healthy, community environment? Also, I do not plan to go all the way to brackish water, but there will be salt added to the tank for George's health.

If you need to look up info on George, here's his Scientific name:Hexanematichthys seemanni

[badflash]

No shrimp is safe around catfish, so the only thing I can suggest is the brackish water ghost shrimp Palaemonetes pugio.

These will probably just be food for them, but they might survive and are not expensive and are very interesting. Any crayfish big enough may take a chunk out of George.

[Jose]

do you have a picture of your catfish?

Maybe I can help in a way.. But I need to know what kind of catfish you have...

[Neonshrimp]

Here is a picture of Hexanematichthys seemanni I found:

[DatDamWuf]

BlauerDrakken,

I think George will eat any shrimp you get unless you get something that will try to eat him!

I went looking for info on your catfish and from what I read you really cannot keep him freshwater for long. I think you should consider setting up a species only type tank for George and giving him some company of his own kind. Even with conflicting info, it appears that George needs brackish water at minimum and eventually (as you said in your post) can move to a full saltwater environment but does not have to.

If you look for used tanks/supplies and just buy filter new you should be able to set one up very cheap for George and still set up your big tank as a freshwater planted tank (with cool shrimp!).

[BlauerDrakken]

BlauerDrakken,

I think George will eat any shrimp you get unless you get something that will try to eat him!

I went looking for info on your catfish and from what I read you really cannot keep him freshwater for long. I think you should consider setting up a species only type tank for George and giving him some company of his own kind. Even with conflicting info, it appears that George needs brackish water at minimum and eventually (as you said in your post) can move to a full saltwater environment but does not have to.

If you look for used tanks/supplies and just buy filter new you should be able to set one up very cheap for George and still set up your big tank as a freshwater planted tank (with cool shrimp!).

If I had my own place, I would already have set up a seperate Brackish tank for George and gotten a couple of similar fish to keep him companie... I almost did that with this existing tank. I have a room-mate who is also my landlord though, so I have no-where to put another tank. That's why I was planning to have a moderate salinity present in this tank when I put it back together as a plant tank.

From what I'm hearing up to now, it sounds like I may be living a pipe dream hoping that I can get my shrimp and keep my cat too. Still, I am remaining hopeful that someone will have a great solution for me.

Thank you all for your responses thusfar...

[BlauerDrakken]

Here is a picture of Hexanematichthys seemanni I found:

That's the right one! That is George... great fish, comes to the glass and says hello whenever I walk by, comes up and lets me pet him, eats out of my hand... if only his mouth and/or appetite weren't the right size for depleting smaller fish and shrimp from the tank.

[Neonshrimp]

Great looking fish and sounds as if he is pretty much trained to trust and recognize you I can see that your priority is George, so his needs should be considered first in all planning of your tank setup.

I hope a solution or alternative pops up in the future and you are able to have the best of both worlds. Please keep us updated and let us know how George is doing

[BlauerDrakken]

Great looking fish and sounds as if he is pretty much trained to trust and recognize you I can see that your priority is George, so his needs should be considered first in all planning of your tank setup.

I hope a solution or alternative pops up in the future and you are able to have the best of both worlds. Please keep us updated and let us know how George is doing

I've always had a certain affinity for catfish, but I think that when my reef tank and everything in it died... but this one, lone catfish (one of 4 I'd just added) managed to live through it all and immerge healthy... I may have become a little too fixated upon him... that was when he acquired his name... I figured any fish that could come out of that mess as the sole survivor was deserving of a name. 2.5 years of seeing him swimming all alone in a tank that, with exception to him, depressed me to even look at might have been a factor too... I hope I find a way to have him and shrimp too, I'll try the ghost shrimp idea first... they sell them as feeders anyway, so if they end up as food, I can honestly say I TRIED to help them escape that fate. I'm hoping that getting a good thick mass of vegetation will help also.

What would you think about something like an African Giant Shrimp? At 15CM, they're certainly too big to eat... but would they be able to survive and be at peace?

[Neonshrimp]

What would you think about something like an African Giant Shrimp? At 15CM, they're certainly too big to eat... but would they be able to survive and be at peace?

The African Giant Shrimp is a peaceful filter feeding shrimp and it sure does looks great. But it would be susceptible to injury and harassment from more aggressive tank mates, especially after molting .

[YuccaPatrol]

I hate to ruin the fantasy of a peaceful planted tank with lots of fish and lots of inverts living in peace and harmony. I want the same thing too, but there is a reason that even well fed lions at the zoo are kept separate from the zebras.

You'll have to choose between fish and inverts, especially with a very large catfish.

The good news is that many interesting inverts can be kept in small tanks. Get yourself a few 10-20 gallon tanks and see what happens. You'll probably be so fascinated with them that you'll forget that you once believed that an aquarium was not complete without fish.

[rugie]

Drakken, in my 71 year lifespan I have been doing freshwater for 48 yrs, and salt tanks for 22 yrs and reef for 14 yrs. I can understand your liking the catfish, but the rest of your story is unbelievable if you had $35,000 worth of stock in that small a tank everything must have been stacked on top of each other, also any person with $35,000 worth of stock would have had a chiller in the system, not having one would be like driving a Cadillac without oil in the engine. I know for a fact that a few days of 80+ degrees will not wipe out a reef, as my reef tanks on occasion would reach those temps. if you were proficient in keeping a reef you would have known there are ways of cooling an overheated tank, ie: fans, ice cubes in plastic bags, increasing water movement etc. we here are very happy to help with problems and suggest options for questions asked, however your story seems in error and bordering on poking fun at us. "bottom line" I am insulted by your thread in thinking we are that gullible. I have no real problem with you & you are free to post what you like but we do not need to believe you.

[rugie]

Also drakken, salt is not used for freshwater animals esp shrimp. that is why they are called freshwater, salt in freshwater skews the osmotic equilibrium of the animals and over time will damage their internal organs and usually result in their early death.

[BlauerDrakken]

I admit that I might have been off on the dollar value... at the time that I was keeping my reef, I was also managing a LFS, so I was able to buy everything at cost. My own cost for what I had in the tank was about $4,000.00, so I assumed a mark-up that may have been a little too extreme. I apologize if I was off on that amount. Also, I tried ice, fans and increased water flow. I was not there during the heat of the day when the outside temperature was averaging between 110 and 120 degrees, so I do not know if it got any hotter than 85 (the highest temperature that I noticed). At the time, I was working 2 jobs, and was gone from the house for about 13-15 hours a day. Long story short, it was incredibly foolish of me not to have a chiller on my tank, I would not go so far as to compare it to driving a Cadillac without oil, but without insurance I could understand. I was not trying to poke fun at anyone, and was not trying to fool anyone. I tried a great many things to save my reef, and it slowly declined over a span of about 10 days from the day the A/C first went out.

As for the salt, I was not certain of how tolerant freshwater shrimp would be over the long term, so that is part of why I came to this forum seeking advice. The fish that are going into the tank will all be thoroughly checked for compatibility with brackish water. My Cat is a brackish species by preference, which is why I am even adding salt in the first place.

[Neonshrimp]

Also drakken, salt is not used for freshwater animals esp shrimp. that is why they are called freshwater, salt in freshwater skews the osmotic equilibrium of the animals and over time will damage their internal organs and usually result in their early death.

rugie is right, this will be your major block to having Dwarf shrimp.