Beginner question/real question

[memphistriathlete]

I am an abosoute beginner at raising shrimp so I read through the FAQ and it helped some but I have specific questions and issues. Here goes.
Background: I have a 175 gallon planted Discus tank that I had 100 ghost shrimp in 3 months ago. Now I know it is possible that the discus are eating some of the ghost shrimp because their numbers have decreased. However here is what I did. The substrate of the tank is Eco-complete which is black. One of my discus turned dark because of this so I wanted to lighten up the tank. I got some white silica sand and put about a half inch layer on top of the eco complete. All of the fish are fine, holly crap I had no idea I had that many trumpet snails so they are fine (you could not see them on the black substrate but you can on the white), the 3 bambo shrimp seem fine. But my ghost shrimp have disappeared. In 2 days I went from having at least 40 to 0. BUT, I dont see any bodies. (yes I looked very carefully because I know they are clear) Is it possible they are hiding and not dead? I have a huge stump in the middle of the tank and their are lots of places to hide.

Next issue, I have a 5.5 gallon tank with a ton of java moss in it on top of a coconut half. I bought 7 shrimp from the store they said were "Japanese Algae Eating Shrimp" but when I got them home they changed from a slight green color to brown with a tan stripe and by coming to this site I have identified as Malaya shrimp. I am fine with that because they will reproduce without having to deal with the whole brackish thing so I went back and bought 10 more. They put 15 in the bag because they had 5 small shrimp since they had reproduced. Now I am looking in the tank and I realized that at least some of them are cherry shrimp and not Malaya shrimp. So my question is this. If they both reproduce (cherry's and Malaya) will they eat each others larva/young? Do I need to put them in separate tanks?
EDIT to original post-Now that I am looking at more pics, I am not sure if I have wild cherries or Malaya. How can I tell the difference?

Lastly, the intent of trying to breed shrimp in the 5.5 is to eventually introduce them into the 175 gallon tank. If the sand killed the ghost shrimp, will it kill the cherry/malaya? Or if the ghost died is it because of the change of adding the sand to the tank?

Sorry for multiple questions but as usual I have a lot going on. I first have to go home and get the 2 guppies out of the shrimp tank as per the FAQ.
Thanks,

[infopimp]

This is in the FAQ but.... Fish eat shrimp. Even smaller, less aggresive fish will eat shrimp, or pick at them. I've seen everything from Zebra Danios to "nano fish" (Dario Darios) take swipes at shrimp. The only way to know for sure is to create a "species" tank and remove that variable entirely. The fact that there are no bodies is pretty telling to me.

Also you are right - the shrimp can hide pretty well. I've found cherry shrimp swimming around days after removing them all (or so I thought) - they can definitely hang on to root balls or hide when predators are around - but not all of them can just disappear without a fish's belly growing.

---

Secondly: I'm not an expert, but I strongly doubt you have Malaya shrimp - these are new to the hobby. Quoting Mustafa's species page at:

http://www.petshrimp.com/malayashrimp.html

"This is one of the rarest shrimp in the shrimp hobby and brand new to the American hobby (as of August 2007)"

The idea of these being in a Local Fish Store, to me, is a pretty slim chance. I may be wrong. Keep in mind that young shrimp have no or very little color. My guess would be you have some "wild type" shrimp... but until I see some photos I'm skeptical.

I hope a more seasoned expert can chime in for you here, as I'm not much help beyond these idle speculations.

[memphistriathlete]

I know that fish eat shrimp but if I had 5 discus eat 40 full sized (all of them were 1- 1.5 inches) shrimp in a day, I would be able to tell. The discus do not have a bloated stomach and they are eating normaly (even acting hungry) so I dont think they ate them. At least not all of them.
Secondly, you are surely right about the Malaya shrimp. I think I do have the wild Neocaridina heteropoda now. But they are so DARK they look like the Malaya. Maybe it is the black substrate and black sponge filter making them so dark. But I have found other posts where people have Neocaridina heteropoda Reds and they have a wide stripe down their back and that is exactly what most of mine look like except they are dark brown instead of red. They are dark brown with a wide tan stripe down their back.
I just found this pic on the gallery page and I totally stole it from Allex's gallery so I hope he doesnt mind. The shrimp I have look just like this but a little darker. Allex has his listed as Neocaridina heteropoda so I sure that is what they are. As long as they breed and clean, I am fine with that.

[memphistriathlete]

Found the shrimp...or...what was left of them. Apparently adding the sand killed all of them in about 2 days time. Also, I have verified that the shrimp I have are wild neocardina's so it is a moot point if they will mix with Malaya's now.
So, my quesiton is this, did the sand kill the ghost shrimp or did the change/stress of adding the sand kill the shrimp. It did not bother my 3 bambo shrimp but they are rather differant from ghost shrimp. I do not want to put in 50 of the necardina's and they all die too so what should I be checking/testing for? The sand was supposedly silica sand (pool filter sand #20) and many have said this was ok. Tanks has 0s on Ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites and is 7 ph.
Do I just need to go buy a few more ghost and add them to see what happens? (hate to do this)

[infopimp]

I have Ghosts in a sand tank doing just fine. There are SO many variables... and like Mustafa has said, sometimes you just need to wait... stop changing everything... and see what happens. There could be factors at play that are not measurable with any sort of test strip.

Not that you asked specifically, but I've sort of grown out of Glass Shrimp... here are my reasons:

1) Hard to breed them
2) They eat babies and weaker (just molted) versions of dwarf shimp (ie, they "do not play well with others" so require their own tank)

They are definitely cool to look at, but I'm interested in creating a self-sustaining colony and don't have the luxury of dozens of tanks (already up to 5, which is scary).

-steve

[memphistriathlete]

I have Ghosts in a sand tank doing just fine. There are SO many variables... and like Mustafa has said, sometimes you just need to wait... stop changing everything... and see what happens. There could be factors at play that are not measurable with any sort of test strip.

Not that you asked specifically, but I've sort of grown out of Glass Shrimp... here are my reasons:

1) Hard to breed them
2) They eat babies and weaker (just molted) versions of dwarf shimp (ie, they "do not play well with others" so require their own tank)

They are definitely cool to look at, but I'm interested in creating a self-sustaining colony and don't have the luxury of dozens of tanks (already up to 5, which is scary).

-steve

Thanks for your post and I agree with you in both parts of your reply. The glass shrimp were actually a test to see if my Discus would eat them or not (they did not). It is sort of a blessing that they are all gone now because I would have NEVER been able to get all of them out of the tank but at the same time I would not have wanted to kill them. I was going to have to get rid of them(because ghosts "dont play nice") before I put in the neocardina anyway . However, I am concerned that whatever happened to them might happen to the neocardina that I want to introduce for the exact reasons you stated. The ghosts were only 10cents each but the neocardina are $2 each so I cant risk another "genocide" like just happened.