Feeding, filtering, water changes, etc.

[Harry]

This forum has been very valuable with regard to the setup and maintenance of my Opae container. I especially realize that overfeeding will crash my tank, just as it crashes all those freshwater tanks. But the problem here is one of discipline. We want to interact with our hobby. Feeding freshwater fish creates a feeding frenzy - lots of activity. The same with the Opae. The tiniest flake of fish food brings them out of their hiding places and out front and center. We get to see them all and watch them pass and grab food from each other. Providing filtration and water changes represents other ways to interact. I've noticed with freshwater aquariums that once the newness wears off and we start to forget about the tank, feed less, etc, the tank starts to do well.

So with Opae, neglect equals care. BUT THAT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE!

[Rob in Puyallup]

Well Harry...

Seems feeding, filtering and water changing is a bit of a no-no in these parts. There are others around here with a lot more experience and success with Opae UIa than me, and they say that it's best to let nature take it's course when it comes to keeping these guys. No aeration, no filtration and no water changes, just top-offs with RO or distilled water. Feeding, too, is rare, and only with teeny tiny bits of food.

I, through my comparatively limited experience with shrimp, have always carried out occasional (once a month at the most) water changes in all of my shrimp tanks. I also feed them every other day (all of my shrimp), a small amount, ie: one Hirakari Mini Algae Wafer for something like 250 Opae Ula, it's more like supplementing their "slime" diet. And I filter. I may have a bit more light than recommended over my tanks as well...

I'll continue posting the results of my over-protective-shrimp-daddy husbandry!

Rob

[Harry]

If you combine 250 Opae into one mass, they would make up a huge fish. So one mini wafer every other day certainly would not be overfeeding. But I think the issue is maintaining a careful balance so that the tank does not crash. Also, another indicator would be the ability to breed. If the tank has been in existence for a while with no breeding, that may mean the shrimp are tolerating tank conditions and not flourishing. I don't know how long your tank has been in existence. If it has been in existence for a year and you have not had active breeding, then something might be wrong. If you have active breeding, then your efforts may be okay. How about some more info, like how long you've had the tank and has there been breeding?

[Rob in Puyallup]

Hi Harry,

You'll find some of my other tank information in other threads as I've been hanging around a bit the past week or so. I started a couple threads, "A Quick Pic or Two" (with pics of the opae ula and the main tank) and another with a video of one of my "Bookshelf Mama's" giving birth.

I've only had my tanks up and running for a short time. The Bookshelf tank since early November, the ten gallon since late November, though not "populated" with Opae until early January. I've already had three opae berry and recently release larva in the bookshelf tank, so something's right.

The shrimp are very active, eating constantly both on solid surfaces like the gravel, rocks and tank walls, as well as surface filter feeding off the undersurface of the water where it meets air. (LOL! I'm sure there's an easier way to say that!) A thin film of what I believe to be single celled algae hangs out up there.

The HOB filter that I have on this tank barely trickles, makes for very little water movement. I can really only tell that it's running when I check the intake and see that the cyclops near it's ouflow are being gently pushed around. (So that no one freaks out, there are just a few cyclops in the tank, they're not taking over the place. LOL!)

[Harry]

Sounds good. If the larvae make it, then it would seem the water parameters are okay. I'll be curious as to what Mustafa might offer here. He did mention something in your other thread about excessive algae and a possible impending bacterial outbreak.

[Mustafa]

Well Harry...

Seems feeding, filtering and water changing is a bit of a no-no in these parts. There are others around here with a lot more experience and success with Opae UIa than me, and they say that it's best to let nature take it's course when it comes to keeping these guys. No aeration, no filtration and no water changes, just top-offs with RO or distilled water. Feeding, too, is rare, and only with teeny tiny bits of food.

It's not a "no no", it's just not the point of keeping Supershrimp. If you want to feed often and perform water changes, then you might as well buy lots of different marine shrimp and crabs and keep those. You'll have a lot more options in terms of macroalgae and even corals! Why bother keeping an animal that has evolved to live under extraordinary conditions? I got interested in these animals *because* you can keep them the way I recommend it. There are other shrimp for other setups. Of course you can do water changes, feed often...and maybe even succeed with that, but you are just introducing more and more factors where you may screw up. The way I recommend keeping them is not just better, in my experience, it's also much easier and MUCH more foolproof.

I'll continue posting the results of my over-protective-shrimp-daddy husbandry!
Rob

I hope you do and I welcome it. Just make sure that you post about the setbacks, too. People have a tendency to just post seemingly positive stuff, but leave out everything negative. I think both are part of the experience and should be mentioned, so others can learn from them.

[Harry]

Yes, I recently posted about my setback with high ammonia levels and the loss of some shrimp. This negative event illustrated just how delicate the tank environment is and how easily it can be disrupted - even by just a tiny amount of spirulina dust.

[Jackal148]

I am new to the Supershrimp thing so I have been reading all of the posts and I apologize if I am reviving old post by commenting. Having said that, I would like to offer an observation. Opae are marvelous creatures capable of living in the barest of environments. The minimalist approach by Mustafa certainly reduces the chances of human error contributing to a tanks downfall. On the other hand, let us not forget that in the wild, the wild populations get water changes (rainfall, tides etc.), they also experience airation and some water movement caused by wind on the water surface and thermal currents cause by sunshine. It would seem then that adding filtration via an air pump and sponge filter would be of benefit to the shrimp by adding some oxygen and water movement while lessening the danger of excessive over feeding. Make no mistake that even with filtration excessive overfeeding can cause major problems but a good healthy biomass in the filter, good light for algal growth (both micro and macro) makes the system a bit more forgiving and allows those that want more interaction to have that pleasure.

Again, I don't want to step on anyone's toes but I can see advantages to both styles of Opae Ula management. As stated above, I am new to these marvels having only had them for about 6 weeks. They (40) are in a 2 gallon bowl, with algae covered rock which I bought at the same time as them, some macro algae bought on line, some lava rock, dead coral and a foam filter with very low air flow. I give them a small piece of food about once a week just to supplement their algae diet. From their behavior, I'd say they've been happy since the day after I put them in the bowl. They are bright red, out and about picking on the rocks, filter and glass. I think, might be wishful thinking, that I see some saddles developing on several of them. I am not expecting them to breed anytime soon though that would be welcomed but only biding time until my 6 gallon Fluval Edge is set up and ready to receive them. I am going to take my time on that until I have a good population of diatoms and algae for them to exploit.

Well I am off to further explore the great pages of this forum and glean more pearls of wisdom from you who are more experienced than I.

[Mustafa]

The minimalist approach by Mustafa certainly reduces the chances of human error contributing to a tanks downfall.

--That is not correct. This approach is not just a compromise as you suggest. It is the *best* method I have found. I am personally using this method in all of my breeding tanks and I have been producing thousands of shrimp every month for years now...and no die-offs...constantly happy and picking shrimp. I have tried all other methods since 2004...this is really the best.

On the other hand, let us not forget that in the wild, the wild populations get water changes (rainfall, tides etc.), they also experience airation and some water movement caused by wind on the water surface and thermal currents cause by sunshine.

--Wrong. Rainfall and tides do not equal water changes in a tank. The actual water parameters in an anchialine pool change *very* slowly. Rain and other freshwater runoff just sit on top of the salty water for a long time (you can even see it if you stick your head in there) before very gradually mixing into the brackish water. Same with the ocean water that *very* slowly creeps through the fissures in the volcanic rock (i.e. there is no flow) and then just sits at the bottom of the pool/pond, again, for a long time, before gradually mixing with the brackish water above. The keyword is *gradual*. There is no giant humanoid creature that comes and suddenly exchanges 30% of the water with completely fresh *biologically dead* water. In any case, not that it would necessarily harm the shrimp if your change water is perfect...but it's not worth the risk and absolutely *not* necessary or beneficial. As you said, you're new to Supershrimp, so you would not know, but I have almost 10 years of breeding experience with them. I have produced more Opae ula than *anyone* else out there with exactly this method (and trust me...people have tried breeding these guys in commercial numbers forever..even in Hawaii..before giving up and going out and catching wild shrimp).

As for oxygenation...our small tanks are never deep enough for oxygen deprivation to be an issue. And the feedings are so light (and decaying organic material pretty much non-exitant) that bacterial blooms, that could deprive oxygen, never happen. Plus, algae produce more than enough oxygen. And...if there ever was a situation where oxygen deprivation is an issue (which it *never* is in a tank under the conditions I describe on this website), then the shrimp have developed strategies to deal with it: they can live under such low oxygen conditions that they actually flee to such waters to get rid of predators (who would die there of oxygen deprivation). Finally, if you have ever seen any of these pools, you'll see that there is absolutely *no* visible active water movement whatsoever.

You also don't seem to know that a huge part of the Opae ula population seems to actually live underground in the volcanic rock fissures. The shrimp you see in pools are just part of the population. The shrimp living underground have even less water movement and even less oxygen (and even less food).

It would seem then that adding filtration via an air pump and sponge filter would be of benefit to the shrimp by adding some oxygen and water movement while lessening the danger of excessive over feeding. Make no mistake that even with filtration excessive overfeeding can cause major problems but a good healthy biomass in the filter, good light for algal growth (both micro and macro) makes the system a bit more forgiving and allows those that want more interaction to have that pleasure.

--It would seem if you come from the world of fishkeeping, but it sure isn't that way. These are not fish that need food every day because *you* are the only food source. Shrimp have all kinds of things to eat that grow in their tanks. That's a major part of their diets. And why would you overfeed? Because you think that shrimp need additional food every day or every few days. What do you think they are picking on when they pick on surfaces? That's their food. Plus...if you go check the water parameters in my tanks right now you'll see that there is 0 ammonia 0 nitrates 0 phosphates and 0 filter. But lots of algae....that's the natural filter, and it's an "edible filter" at that. What could possibly be better?

Again, I don't want to step on anyone's toes but I can see advantages to both styles of Opae Ula management.

--You're not stepping on anyone's toes. It's just that if your only experience has been fish, it's very hard to divorce yourself from the notion that a tank needs a filter and airation. It's not like your approach is novel...people have tried it that way...some have temporary success, others kill their shrimp, and others pretend that they are successful while quietly disappearing into the night after some time. If you think it works for you (even without any breeding going on yet...nevermind continuous breeding over years) then keep things the way they are. My method has been *proven* to work for over 10 years. I don't see how I can find a better method than the one the produces 30 -100+ larvae in *each* tank every two weeks...*and* saves me the water changes (because absolutely none are needed).

As stated above, I am new to these marvels having only had them for about 6 weeks. They (40) are in a 2 gallon bowl, with algae covered rock which I bought at the same time as them, some macro algae bought on line, some lava rock, dead coral and a foam filter with very low air flow. I give them a small piece of food about once a week just to supplement their algae diet. From their behavior, I'd say they've been happy since the day after I put them in the bowl. They are bright red, out and about picking on the rocks, filter and glass. I think, might be wishful thinking, that I see some saddles developing on several of them. I am not expecting them to breed anytime soon though that would be welcomed but only biding time until my 6 gallon Fluval Edge is set up and ready to receive them. I am going to take my time on that until I have a good population of diatoms and algae for them to exploit.

--Good luck with them! Why not start a new thread detailing your experiences with them and your setup over time? I, for one, am always happy about threads like that.

Well I am off to further explore the great pages of this forum and glean more pearls of wisdom from you who are more experienced than I.

--Well, welcome to the forum, then.

[Iwantshrimp]

Resist the urge to feed the little shrimps it's not goodvfor them to have food too often