Popcorn of Death

[Mech]

maybe change the water for RO water instead of distilled, sorry for your loss's

[KenCotigirl]

Good day. I am not asking you to tell us who you got the shrimp from just did you get them from this site. One issue could be is that the shrimp were stressed, weak or in poor condition from the start. Then add the slight ammonia could have been just too much. Not to say that the shrimp you received were poor quality perhaps they could have been chilled or over heated during shipping.

Snails. What level of brackish water were they from? For example 1.004 to 1.012 could be too much.

Ken

[btong]

Thanks Mech. Maybe I will.

Excellent questions KenCotigirl; I can't answer about the water that the snails came from as I didn't test it beforehand, but I can try decreasing the salinity from here on out. I don't have a hydrometer, so I'm not positive what the salinity currently is, but I've been adding exactly half of what the Instant Ocean suggests. I received everything from this site, so I doubt the fault lies with anyone but myself and/or the people who handle the packages during shipping, neither of which reflect poorly on PetShrimp.com.

Positive-ish note:
All the shrimp are still alive come Monday. A different one is down with the post-popcorn semi-catatonia, but all are alive. Most of the others have become that stupidly-red shade of red that I've seen in all your healthy tanks (as stated before, may not be a sign of health, but they're damn pretty so I thought I;d mention it). Only one snail is active, I'm growing doubtful of the alivability of the other.

Ammonia remains constant in the tank, all shrimp are sequestered outside the tank for now.

[btong]

So about Seachem Prime: I mixed in approximately the right amount for a 2.5 gallon tank (which considering that a capful treats 50 gallons was essentially nothing), and the ammonia level remained constant according to my test. Thoughts? The bottle says that twice the dose is safe, but without an accurate method of measuring such a small volume I'm hesitant to start adding more.

Also, both snails are alive, the ammonia level is elevated only in the original tank, not in the small body of water that the coral was isolated to (though granted it has only been 48 hours, on average how long would it take to see ammonia levels build? Take into account the fact that the coral make up about a 5th of the total volume of the bowl, so if there were something rotting on it it should show up pretty quick, right?).

Any sense in draining the entire tank, rewashing the substrate, and starting the cycling process over again? Shrimp seem ok in the ceramic sugar jar i put them in for now.

[KenCotigirl]

I would not change the salinity. While I am not a fan of water changes dead shrimp need to be addressed. One quart water change is 10%. Make a gallon of new salt water and let it stand for several hours to over night. Test for ammonia. There should be zero. If not I question the test equipment. Add two drops of Prime. Mix thoroughly. Do a one quart change. Test again the next day. Same ammonia level do another one quart change. Repeat till the shrimp stop dying. Keep us updated.

[Mech]

i use a product called prodibio biodigest, this will help speed up the tank cycle and remove ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at the same time.. always worth a shot.

[btong]

Sounds good, thank you for the clear methodology.
And thanks everyone else for your input.
Will keep updating.

Ah Mech! I was gonna ask about such products. I'll look into that one, thanks. Only similar products I've seen in stock here are the API quick start one and that one looked sketchy given certain reviews.

[btong]

So Mech,
I'm looking at the vials that each dose between 30 gallons and an irrelevant higher number of gallons. How do you break up each dose without letting the rest of the vial go to waste (I'm assuming you don't have a 30+ gallon tank)? Or do you break up the dose at all?

(These ones)

[erica]

So about Seachem Prime: I mixed in approximately the right amount for a 2.5 gallon tank (which considering that a capful treats 50 gallons was essentially nothing), and the ammonia level remained constant according to my test. Thoughts? The bottle says that twice the dose is safe, but without an accurate method of measuring such a small volume I'm hesitant to start adding more.

Prime doesn't remove ammonia completely; it turns it into ammonium (different chemical composition and not as dangerous for creatures) for what, 24 hours? 48? I forget. Ammonium will still show up on the ammonia test.

I measure with a pipette. It's not a graduated one, so I had to count the drops in 5mL (smallest measure I had) and then divide by five to figure out how many drops are in 1mL. x3 Wasn't too fun, but only had to do it once and now I can confidently know how much I'm putting in whatever amount of water.

[Mech]

i just use a full vial in my 17gallon every 2 weeks, you cannot overdose the tank, just hurts your wallet lol. They really do work well though. try it out for a few months until you are happy your shrimps are doing well.

They do different size vials, i use this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prodibio-L00105 ... B002NQIPBU

[btong]

Excellent information, both of you. Thanks.

Down to the last snail, and though it looked like it was going strong and very happy through Friday, it's looking quite sickly today. Ten shrimp left, all seemingly very content. The one popcorn-of-death survivor has since perished.

[btong]

So now I'm at even more of a loss.

Everything's been A-OK since I last posted; all the shrimp were doing fine and the last remaining snail is alive and well. However, I came back from the weekend to find two shrimp dead and a third in its last moments. It looked like its legs had been frozen into an outstretched position and its only method of propelling its body was through the use of its swimmerets (i.e. it was clumsy as heck).

I removed those three and immediately did a water test (last performed on Friday before going home for the weekend), and, just like Friday, the water was fine. So now I'm losing shrimp for reasons I can't begin to fathom (whereas before my low ammonia numbers gave me an indication of something being wrong).

I'm at a loss.

[JennyPenny]

Perhaps the tank has been contaminated with cleaning products or air fresheners. Is the office cleaned over the weekend? Maybe the cleaning crew is cleaning the glass on your tank and aerosolized particles have polluted the water. Have you put your hands in the tank when they might have residue on them-soap, cleaning products, lotion, or perfume?
Another possibility is there is only trace amounts of ammonia in your tank. I have heard these little guys are very sensitive to ammonia. If one happened to die, that might be elevating ammonia enough to register in the water and cause trouble for the others which may not have completely recovered from their original ordeal.
How many days/weeks was the tank set up for before you added the shrimp?
ETA: are these shrimp still separate from your tank? Do your tests include nitrate and nitrite? And are they strips or liquid test kits?
Apologies if these questions have already been covered here. Hopefully we can help solve this puzzle.

[btong]

I'm almost positive there are no cleaning agents that could have gotten in via a cleaning crew or my hands, I've been careful and the cleaning crew here isn't that thorough. They weren't dying off this quickly when there was perceptible ammonia in the tank, so now that there isn't any I'm quite stumped as to how it could be ammonia related.

The tank wasn't cycled as much as it should have been before purchasing the shrimp (which was somewhat out of my hands). However, can someone explain to me wherein the issue with an un-cycled tank lies if none of the problem children (ammonia, nitrite, etc) are not present, and are closely monitored so that they do not become present? This is more for general knowledge than it being truly applicable here.

The shrimp are back in the tank, and have been for over two weeks. Everything was dandy until sometime this weekend (and one died on Friday due to what I assume was a failed molt; it had half the molt off and then perished).

I have the strips for ph, NO2, NO3, KH, and GH. I have the liquid test for ammonia. Nothing is showing up as hazardous via either test.

[JennyPenny]

Let me preface this by saying I'm a new shrimper (introduced to shrimp in November, set up tank in December, added shrimp in Feb). I have done a lot of reading though. What I remember reading is there is a difference between a cycled tank and a SEASONED tank. I think KenCotiGirl might know more about this. But a seasoned tank will flourish in ways that a cycled tank will not. A seasoned tank has healthy organisms like copepods, and a balance of diatoms and algae. I believe a cycled tank may have biofilm and some algae, but a seasoned tank is in good balance and stable. It has bacteria that are able to handle gradual changes in bioload without having dangerous or harmful swings in ammonia or nitrites.
It's good that you have a liquid ammonia test. I'm not as familiar with the test strips but I have read fairly negative reviews about inaccurate results with them. I would not rely on the results of treat strips. For a long time I used strips in my fish tanks and couldn't understand why my fish were dying but my water was fine. Maybe my water WAS actually fine, but members in forums have conducted tests that show the inaccuracy of strips while showing more accuracy with liquid test kits. You could go out and buy a master test kit and your parameters would be fine. I'm not sure what's going on in your tank. I suspect it may be there was ammonia in your tank that weakened your shrimp, combined with an tank that perhaps had not finished cycling.
I have noticed probably about 20 exoskeletons since I first added my shrimps. I still have all 15 that I purchased, and my snails are reproducing. I'm thinking death from failed molting is rather unusual, and a sign that your shrimp are not 100%. I think a dose or SeaChem Prime every other day and no feeding of the tank may be your best bet.
How are the shrimp doing now? I'm crossing my fingers that you are having more success.