Cherry Shrimp - A couple questions

[PhaidOut]

Maybe thinking a little out of the box on this...

Is possible that there is something in the water or in greater concentration in Germany that is causing the plants to generate more of the compound? Is it in a particular part of Germany?

Ineresting thing to watch...

[Mustafa]

Interesting questions. I doubt that the water in Germany is substantially different from the water in the US. After all, all the water suppliers in the world have to adhere to some scientific standards of what constitutes "drinking water" so there cannot be such huge differences. This certainly applies to the so called "industrialized" nations. Elsewhere the situation might be (and definitely is in some cases) dramatically different.

The reports came from all over Germany by the way.

[PhaidOut]

That is true... But I know that mineral/hardness vary greatly from local to local. In the states we do have different water processing requirements form Europe...Germany probably has some of the best water in europe though...

Even here it varies. I know the water where I went to college is substantially different from where I live now. The source there - old copper mines. I now it was very hard, but I never looked into exactly the causes of the hardness. I can tell you this - my planted tanks there never showed signs of iron deficencies. Where I live currently it comes from the Great Lakes. I know my Denver water was pretty hard as well...

I guess what I am trying to say is that if a certain local has a much higher concentration of certain minerals then other locations. There may also be different contaminants outside of minerals. Granted the minerals or contaminants are not at dangerous levels (or supposedly dangerous levels) to us - but they may affect the plants in such a way that they produce more or less of certain chemicals. Thus poisoning shrimp...

It IS kind of a reach and I admit I can not recall a specific instance of such a thing; but stranger things have happened and I seem to recall such things - not specific to aquaria though. Haven't done any environmental engineering since college....

[Mustafa]

You're right that there are differences between water supplies, especially when it comes to hardness. But there are other differences too. For example, I just noticed that my tap water comes out with a Phophate content of 2 ppm (2mg/liter), which is actually very high. Plants take care of that problem, of course if you have any (my floating plants in my 55 gallon bring down the phosphate content to 0 almost right away).

As to plants reacting differently to different kind of water....who knows? Possible, but without proof pure speculation.

Mustafa

[chlorophyll]

I read somewhere that crayfish, an aquascaper's nightmare, tend to leave certain select plants relatively untouched. Among them crypts and anubias...

[Mustafa]

I read somewhere that crayfish, an aquascaper's nightmare, tend to leave certain select plants relatively untouched. Among them crypts and anubias...

If you could get a source for that that would nice.

[chlorophyll]

I guess it was really a very informal but informative account of a crayfish keeper.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i4/cr ... ayfish.htm

Upon review I suppose these plants do still get chopped on a bit, but relative to other plants, hold up well. Still, while reviewing this thread it got me thinking about if it had anything to do with this discussion of chemicals that may be in these plants.

Toward the latter part of the paper:

"Plant- wise, I have found that my Anubias, Riccia, and Crypts seem to hold up well against the Crayfish, but Parrot's Feather, Elodea, and Water Sprite are quite delectable to these dual-clawed eating machines."

and

"Plants: Java fern, Java moss, Anubias, Cryptocoryne, Water Sprite, Riccia fluittans, Vallisneria. (All plants are vulnerable to munching)"

[smvb]

I'm new to shrimp. I just set up a 10 gallon tank with about 20 small red cherry shrimp, two small java ferns, and one anubias (largish, not sure of the variety). My shrimp are doing fine, but all I have done is trim the roots of the anubias before putting it in the tank.

I'm wondering whether the people who have not experienced problems after trimming the suspect plants have carbon in their filters. This might help remove the toxins, if any. I don't currently use carbon, but am considering it now.

[cz]

Resolution from HeyPK of APC: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... hp?p=51040

[Jackie]

Resolution from HeyPK of APC: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... hp?p=51040

IMO this whole plant thing isn't as simple as we would like it to be. From what I know it is true that certain plants contain oxalate and it is true that it is poison to shrimp. But:

1. It still isn't certain if all shrimp species are equaly vulnerable to oxalate.

2. We still don't know how big the concentration of the oxalate must be to make it hazardous to shrimp.

3. Maybe the water hardness (KH) and pH have something to do with this.

4. Maybe not all species of anubias and crypto have the same amount of oxalate in their juices.

5. There are many chemicals compounds that are oxalates, we don't know if all of them are equally hazardous.

6. Maybe something we are unaware of neutralizes oxalate, therefore reports od broken anubias and cryptos being harmless to shrimp have some explanantion?

7. Finally, it IS possible that this whole theory is blown-up to gigantic proportions and there is nothing to worry about.

[cz]

Thats true. Most first hand references of crypts with shrimp are questions about set-up, not long term effects. Still, pretty compelling and logical argument from HeyPK. I moved crypt wendtii var. red into my tank last night, so we can run a modest experiment with it to see. I've had an anubias afzelii with shrimp for 5 months, but its small, and Ive lost some shrimp, but have a breeding colony of cherry shrimp.

knowns:
The crypt is ~8" tall from crown up, and its roots are 2.5" tall. (I can take a pic if wanted). Its already melting.
System volume is ~15g guestimating loss from substrate and stuff.
Bumblebee (bee?), n. denticulata sinesis (var red/Cherry and var brown), ghost, japonica, and red nosed shrimp.
* kH 5.5-6.0, pH 6.6-6.8.
Ferts into the water cloumn, and do water change with tap, and live downtown of a major metro. Numbers are in site below if wanted.

[cz]

I lost two japonica/Amano shrimp, and at least one red-nosed shrimp since Thrusday 6/9. Moving in a red crypt wendtii was the only change, so I yanked it and did two 50% pwc (yesterday and today). Might be coincidence, but don't want to continue experiment to find out.

[Jackie]

Might be coincidence, but don't want to continue experiment to find out.

I think we all have the same problem...