Supershrimp Mossballs vs. Marimo Balls

[Mustafa]

The question about the difference between the Supershrimp Mossballs and Marimo Balls comes up a lot so I'll repost a post I made over three years ago that actually clarifies a few things there:

This was a reply to "Stalker" claiming over three years ago (and again today ) that the Supershrimp Mossballs are just "regular" Marimo Balls:

Isnt it regular marimo ball? Aegagropilla grow well and even better in brackish water than fresh one. My seamonkey tank is drying every month completly (with salt crystals forming) and the pieces of marimo i put here are still alive and is growing.

The claim that they grow "better" in brackish water is very likely false by the way given the scientific literature. Here is my reply, again, from over 3 years ago:

Original link (text below, also read the other posts on that page for more info..Stalker's above quoted comment is on the linked page too):

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5206&p=36727&h#p36727

Although it's possible that my "Mossballs" are the same species as "marimo balls", one would still have to explain how marimo balls got into my Supershrimp tanks. Until about two months ago I had never even owned a marimo ball. I've had my supershrimp mossballs for many years now (about 4-5 years?). I only bought the marimo ball to see how it's similar/different from my mossballs. I got a giant marimo ball plucked it apart into 50+ pieces and spread the pieces in various freshwater shrimp tanks. It's been a few months now and here are my observations as to what the differences are between marimo balls and my mossballs. Although the marimo ball pieces are growing, I still can't see them turning round anytime soon (I'm hoping though...I like these "balls" too). The pieces also attach themselves both to rocks and each other after a while. I had to pry balls apart from rocks and other balls to keep them separate and loose. Some of those attached pieces grow flat on those rocks covering them. That kind of growth (i.e. *not* balls) is described in literature from lots of locations...the ball shape is much rarer. Apparently, even the balls can grow on flat surfaces in a non-ball fashion.

In contrast, my supershrimp mossballs never attach themselves to anything. They are always loose and always round. I'Some can get quite a big bigger than marble size in some tanks, but at that size they look like they're about to bud a dozen smaller balls (which they do). I have not observed any "budding" in commercially available marimo balls. They have also never grown on flat surfaces like marimo balls do (and, yes, they do that even in brackish water like the baltic sea).

I guess I'll have to some day really get a microscope and look at both types of balls under the microscope to see what the differences are. At this point they seem very different...and last I checked marimo balls don't just crystalize out of nothing (and they don't have spores either). If my mossballs are marimo that's exactly what must have happened. Doesn't make much sense.

[Mustafa]

I'll provide some additional info. I have never tried the actual marimo balls in brackish water. They may or may not do ok given that the species (Aegagropila linnaei) appears to be very variable and does occur in non-ball form in brackish water. However, they tend to be too big for most Supershrimp tanks and don't cover the ground with small balls over time (via budding) as the Supershrimp Mossballs do.

I may try the Marimo balls in brackish water in the future to actually provide final clarity on this, but the exact reason I haven't tried them is because I don't want to contaminate my tanks with it in case it does survive and thrive in brackish water. My Supershrimp Mossballs are far superior in both look and reproduction so it should be understandable that I don't want to risk it.

One has to be careful about people reporting "survival" and "growth" of marimo balls in high brackish water until clear proof has been provided. There are plenty of people who believe their java moss of fern is "surviving" and "growing" in their supershrimp tanks only to come back (if they come back) a few months later to report that the dead plants have polluted their tanks.

So, feel free to experiment if you want...but you could just go the safer route and get the Supershrimp Mossballs that are proven to grow and reproduce in Supershrimp tanks. If you do experiment, try to report it in this thread.

Having said that, the Marimo ball that I fragemented into little pieces years ago thrives in my freshwater setups and has formed nice "carpet" shapes, but not a single one has turned into an actual ball. I also haven't seen any budding...although fragements do come loose sometimes (when I mess with the tank) and turn into new carpets. (And they attach themselves to rocks or other things after a while, something that Supershrimp Mossballs never do). I can post pictures at some point.

[minishrimps]

Thanks for this info Mustafa. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that Marimos exist in places where tidal or other natural currents actually break the moss blankets free and they roll around daily and that's how they form into balls. Even the directions for keeping a Marimo suggest that you roll the ball around frequently or else it will brown on one side and become more globular over time...

[Mustafa]

Yes, where this species (Marimo balls) does form balls it seems like wave action rolls the balls around so they maintain their ball shape. And that's *exactly* what isn't needed with the Supershrimp Mossballs. They bud tiny pieces after a while which then grow into balls shapes over time. Basically tiny balls turn into ever larger balls. It could be that the shrimp somehow contribute towards the ball shape by ever slightly moving the tiny balls over time, but not sure.

[jcfrank922]

Hi! I actually have 5 marimo balls which I keep in a 1 gallon fish bowl in fresh tap water that is changed every two weeks. I don't think they would do well in brackish or ocean water. In nature, they are only found in fresh water lakes in Japan, Estonia, Iceland, Scotland and Australia.

[Stalker]

You's dont seems to do well in fresh water too...

[minishrimps]

Yes, where this species (Marimo balls) does form balls it seems like wave action rolls the balls around so they maintain their ball shape. And that's *exactly* what isn't needed with the Supershrimp Mossballs. They bud tiny pieces after a while which then grow into balls shapes over time. Basically tiny balls turn into ever larger balls. It could be that the shrimp somehow contribute towards the ball shape by ever slightly moving the tiny balls over time, but not sure.

somehow my moss ball navigates the entirety of my tank... There is no filter or current but it moves around and certainly not of it's own accord. Though maybe, because with enough light and photosynthesis the balls will create thier own internal air bubbles and this causes some sort of buoyancy which can lift the ball slightly until the gas escapes, but only on the side with the bubble. So one can ascertain (and if you watch long enough, witness) that as Mustafa's balls photosynthesize they do move on their own...

[Mustafa]

Yeah, when there is more intense lighting the mossballs can develop little bubbles in them because of photosynthesis. I have a few floating around in my tanks. If you want the ball to sink back down you just have to squeeze out the bubbles gently. And you're right...the bubbles may make it easier for them to move around.

[nova]

Did you mossballs grown when you broke them up into separate pieces mustafa?

[Mustafa]

Did you mossballs grown when you broke them up into separate pieces mustafa?

You mean the Marimo Balls? Yes, they did but more flat and none of them became truly ball-shaped again. They're still around and all have definitely grown. The Supershrimp Mossballs start out as tiny little ball shaped fragments and just keep getting beigger (as balls) from there. I'll take a few pics in the next few days hopefully and post them.

[nova]

Did you mossballs grown when you broke them up into separate pieces mustafa?

You mean the Marimo Balls? Yes, they did but more flat and none of them became truly ball-shaped again. They're still around and all have definitely grown. The Supershrimp Mossballs start out as tiny little ball shaped fragments and just keep getting beigger (as balls) from there. I'll take a few pics in the next few days hopefully and post them.

Ahh OK so did the supershrimp mossballs just multiply on their own or did you break them up in turn grew larger?

[JennyPenny]

I have your macroalgae in my tank, and I think my light is very strong because the algae is now a light green color, instead of deep green. Will the moss ball survive in a tank with strong light?
Also, how often does it propagate? Can you tear them into small pieces to speed up the process, or does that kill them?

[Varanus]

I have your macroalgae in my tank, and I think my light is very strong because the algae is now a light green color, instead of deep green. Will the moss ball survive in a tank with strong light?
Also, how often does it propagate? Can you tear them into small pieces to speed up the process, or does that kill them?

Mustafa has said in the past that the mossballs multiple on their own, but quite slowly. However, they are a different organism from the macroalgae he sells so you may need to clarify just what you are talking about.

If it is really the macroalgae you are talking about, then I've seen it grow large even from very small fragments. A lot of light does change its color, but it doesn't seem to impede its growth.

[JennyPenny]

I'm sorry for not being clear. Sometimes what I write does not come across the way I intend it to.
Since the light in my tank makes the macro algae that I have pale green, I wondered if it would do the same to one of the moss balls from Mustafa (I don't have a moss ball yet). I have heard that strong sunlight can burn or damage marimos. I realize that these balls are not marimo, but wondered if too much light is bad for them, too.
My second question is, can you break Mustafa's moss balls into little pieces to propagate them, or will that kill them?

[Ace]

Do not place the balls with the macroalgae. It grows so fast that it will suck all the nutrients out of the water and outcompete the balls.