Copper sulfate and snails

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Varanus
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Copper sulfate and snails

Post by Varanus »

I've been trying to figure out what is going wrong with one of my freshwater tanks. My rabbit snails had been doing well, I had a good number of adorable orange babies, but in the past few months two of my three adults have died and all but three of the babies have also died. All but one of my nerites has passed on as well (though they were fairly old admittedly). Right now I am thinking that perhaps it is related to my ceasing to use Indian almond leaves in the tank (the rabbit snails certainly loved to eat them, but I didn't think they were that important so I didn't buy more when I ran out months ago). Indeed I wonder if the lack of leaves in another of my tanks is why snails died whenever I put them in there, despite how well they were doing in the otherwise largely identical tank they were first in (and how non-snails I've put in the second tank have done fine).

However, if this proves to not be the problem (I've gotten more leaves and the remaining snails seem to have perked up), or even if it is, I am also considering their food and what may be best for them. Which gets to my main point and main question.

That is I've long known that copper is toxic to fish and especially invertebrates, so I was surprised to find that copper sulfate is in all the Hikari brand food I use. Clearly whatever amount of copper sulfate is in it isn't a problem usually (my supershrimp tank has flourished, as have my non-snail freshwater tanks), but why is it an ingredient in the foods to begin with, including the specialist shrimp and crayfish foods I got? And is there any chance it could be contributing to my problems in one of my tanks? It seems unlikely but I want to cover my bases.

Also to be clear, my water conditions have otherwise not changed and the ghost and flower shrimp in the snail tank have been doing well (well as well as can be expected with the ghost shrimp as they don't live all that long as adults at the best of times). No detectable ammonia, and the copepods (which it is my understanding are sensitive to poor water conditions) in the tank have a booming population.
Keystone
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Re: Copper sulfate and snails

Post by Keystone »

Sad to hear about your rabbits - they are certainly fascinating to watch. What other freshwater snails did you lose?

I don't feed anything that lists copper to mine. But I know people that feed peas to their inverts on a regular basis and they are high in copper. I keep leaf litter in all my tanks as well. No catappa - I use oak, maple, birch, beech & grape.

Several snail species eat the leaf litter and I replace it regularly - now I'm slightly paranoid about letting it run out.
Varanus
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Re: Copper sulfate and snails

Post by Varanus »

Keystone wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:53 pm Sad to hear about your rabbits - they are certainly fascinating to watch. What other freshwater snails did you lose?
In the snail-focused tank? Well there was one black devil snail, plus the nerites I mentioned. But they were all adults so its hard to say what was old age and what wasn't.

Since my earlier post I've gotten some more nerites and some Japanese trapdoor snails. Some of them haven't adapted and may die, but others seem to be doing ok. And I think the young rabbit snails are doing better. The one adult rabbit remaining hasn't died yet, but aside from peeking out of its shell a few times (and sometimes exuding the thick mucus snails make when they're unhappy) hasn't moved in weeks.

Hopefully finding foods with no copper won't be too hard. What brands do you use? Even Hikari algae wafers have copper sulfate in them.
Keystone
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Re: Copper sulfate and snails

Post by Keystone »

I feed leafy greens twice a week. I buy pre-washed organic spinach, kale or bok choi and wash it again in distilled water and freeze it for later use.

In addition to the leaf litter I also occasionally place washed & boiled green leaves of the same trees as food.

For commercial products I occasionally feed National Geogrphic brand lobster & shrimp pellets & tropical energy flakes and Omega One veggie rounds.

I'm usually not picky on the brand, but I also usually have freeze dried bloodworms, krill or daphnia on hand that I will mix in with the flakes.

I also feed powdered spirulina, but I am currently out of it.

Been thinking about making my own "snello" as well.
Varanus
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Re: Copper sulfate and snails

Post by Varanus »

Well the adult rabbit snail did die but the two remaining youngsters and other snails in the tank have all been doing great. The rabbit snails in particular seem to alternate between days of regular foraging and days spent munching on the leaves, so perhaps they really need them for a balanced diet. The one old nerite seems to have gotten a second lease on life too, though it doesn't touch the leaves perhaps the tannins and such still help it.

So it seems like the almond leaves really helped. Yet in the other tank there still seem to be issues with snails. I got some malaysian trumpet snails for their hardiness and to dig in substrate. But the ones I put in the tank where snails seem to always die do not seem to be doing well. This is despite my having had the almond leaves in that tank too now for a few weeks. Admittedly the ones I put in there did not seem to be doing too good to begin with (that is they were less active during acclimation than the ones I put in the snail tank), and hopefully in the successful snail tank I'll have plenty of babies before long to further test the odd snail killing tank and see if I can get any to survive in it.
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