Lowering pH and female cherry question

[TKD]

Hi all,

Does anyone know how to safely lower the pH of water to about 7 for shrimp? My water is a pH of 7.6

What about a pH buffer that will lower it to a certain point?

Or are there any DIY RO units or reedy made units that are cheap?

I was also wondering if female cherries will produce eggs even if a male is not around. (Not fertilized of course)

Thanks,

TKD

[badflash]

No need to get excited about a pH of 7.6 with cherries, but if you want to lower pH there are any number of products that work. I use Seachem Acid Buffer to lower pH and their Alkaline buffer to raise it. In combo you can set the pH to what you want but this needs some experimenting to get it just right. Directions are on the bottle.

I shoot for no more than a .2 change in a 24 hour period.

Cheap is a relative term. I got a 30 GPD unit with a charcoal filer & sediment filter for $207 including shipping and a reserve tank. Go for a bigger reserve tank as mine only delivers 1 gallon before it runs out. If you need 5 gallons per day, get a small RO filter and a BIG reserve tank. Otherwise you get to be a slave to the R/O unit.

Also be aware that R/O water is only suitable for daily make-up water and not for water changes. You need to re-constitute R/O water with minerals like R/O right and buffers (see above) to make it safe for shrimp. Pure R/O water shifts in pH on a whim ad the shrimp suffer.

[TKD]

Ok thank you badflash,

My tank has no gravel and is essentially a few rocks a piece of mopany (sp) wood and a lot of Java moss and Java fern. I'm trying to lower the pH to a level so that both BB and cherries will breed.

And I'm still curious about if female cherries will produce eggs even if a male is not around. (Not fertilized of course).

Thanks,

TKD

[GunmetalBlue]

And I'm still curious about if female cherries will produce eggs even if a male is not around. (Not fertilized of course).

Hi TKD, well I always knew I was too wordy, but now officially know it's to the point that people just block me out ... Don't worry, I'm used to it. Here's a selectively capsulized version of my observation of females (in my all female tank) from my RCS thread:

Here's one of the young females with unfertilized eggs; I wasn't at first entirely sure if RCS will carry eggs without fertilization (although I knew certain Macrobrachiums do) - now I know for sure they will, even if for a very short time. There was one that actually carried for 4 days and had me worried! I thought maybe a male was hiding in there with a disguise on (yellow paint, anyone?).



Here are questions I've posed for myself, which may in time play out:

1.) After several cycles of having unfertilized eggs on their swimmerettes, will they stop, without the presence of males? And when they are put back in with a male after this process, will their ability to reproduce have been compromised?

In my experience they just seem to continue developing eggs "just in case" there is a male around. Who knows, maybe after dozens of cycles they might stop, but I have not kept female alone for that long to find out.

Have you come to a definitive conclusion yet whether your "male" is actually an Amano and not an RCS? If so, that's too bad; sounds like you'll still have to work towards finding a male RCS.

-GB

[Shady]

Best way to lower pH is to add water with a lower KH. Buffers will work, but they will chemically be "battling" against your carbonates, and will eventually wear out. THey also add excessive nutrients to the water. RO water is fine for creating a lower KH, as long as you add small amounts at a time and measure. If you are at 7.6 pH, you probably have a KH somewhere around 4-5 degrees. You will want to get that to about 2-3 degrees to get the pH to around 7, so theoretically, a 50% water change with RO or DI would work. You might want to add RO RIght to get the calcium and trace elements up where they should be, but don't add a KH buffer. I would just keep it at 7.6 though, becaue a KH of 2 is somewhat unstable.

[TKD]

Hi GB,

Opps, sorry I forgot about your post.
The thing is my two older females never have produced eggs.

Maybe with the four new shrimp that I have there will be a male... but I dough it. (The new shrimp are in another town with me at the moment and not near the 2 original cherries).

Ya, unfortunately I'm positive that the male cherry is an Amano.
(Hard to tell when the are small)

TKD

[GunmetalBlue]

TKD, are you referring to lack of eggs in the saddle area or on the swimmerettes? It seems like you've had them long enough by now for them to have a yellow saddle. Just to make sure, I got the impression you were pretty sure they are Cherries? I've broken the process into phases:

Phase 1 - A maturing RCS female gets a "yellow saddle" at the area just behind her head, on the top portion of her body (this can be obscured if you have an older super red). I think of this part as filling up a balloon with air - At first the saddle will look small, but soon the area fills up with potential eggs to be fertilized.

Phase 2 - The female molts and within a day or two, usually makes herself available for mating. Whether she mates or not, the eggs will usually descend onto the swimmerette area under her body. The part I'm not absolutely sure of is if they ALWAYS do this for unfertilized eggs. But so far most of my young ones in the female-only tank are having the eggs on their swimmerettes.

Phase 3 - If the eggs are fertilized, she will continue to care for them under her body, aerating them by flapping her swimmerettes (provided she doesn't experience stress that causes dropping of eggs). If the eggs are not fertilized, she will drop them. So far, my experience indicates they can be dropped within that day, or she can keep them as long as 3 - 4 days.

If you aren't seeing the eggs on her swimmerettes but the saddle portion disappears, then she probably dropped the eggs as soon as she had them on her swimmerettes. It's easy to miss this portion, especially if it happens overnight or at a time when you weren't around.

-GB

[TKD]

Hi GB,

Yup, I have see the yellow saddle on both of the older cherries. It is kinda hard to see as they are both deep red (One has a purple tinge). Not blood red though...

I'm even seeing it in the new small cherries. They so young that they have very little colour and are a bit more then 1 cm. (They are the one's that I have with me here in the holding tank.)

TKD