nitrate reduction

[badflash]

I e-mailed Kordon and Robert Rofen wrote me back. He sure didn't sound like marketing hype to me. Here is what he said:

AmQuel+ absolutely removes at least 1.2 ppm of all ammonia/ammonium, 2 ppm nitrites, and 13 ppm nitrates within a few minutes. The problem is the poor quality of many test kits on the market.

There are things you need to know about the use of tap water in aquariums and ponds, about water conditioners, and about water quality test kits, that will save you from a lot of grief. It takes some reading time to tell you what you need to know, but the time will be worth it for you.

All municipal water supplies from the utilities in the U.S. are providing tap water that is more or less toxic to fishes. In March 2005 the U.S. EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) issued an edict to all of the public water utilities in the United States regarding their 4 ppm maximum requirement for chlorine in public water supplies in order to kill all viruses and bacteria in tap water. The chlorine can be in the form of one or more soluble chlorines or chloramines.

Organisms dying in the water pipes between the water utilities and the end user can be adding nitrogen wastes (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, etc.) to the water that are harmful to fishes. The wastes are due to suffocation of organisms in the water and their death from lack of oxygen, and from what the utilities are adding to the water to kill any living organisms present.

Therefore, for aquarium and pond fishes the tap water used is to some extent toxic to them and needs to be treated before use. Products need to be used that will remove up to 4 ppm of chlorines and all the ammonia/ammonium from the chloramines in the water. Kordon provides the foremost products in removing chlorines, chloramines, and toxic nitrogen compounds from all types of fresh and salt water. These are the AmQuel+ products, which are capable of removing per dose over 33 ppm of all forms of chlorines, and all the contents of chloramines.

We know from using scientific grade electronic test equipment costing hundreds or thousands of dollars each that Kordon's Amquel+ can be depended upon to remove from water all the chlorines, and all the toxic nitrogen compounds (ammonias, nitrites, nitrates, etc.) to at least the level per dose that is indicated on the product labels. This is because AmQuel+ undergoes the needed chemical reactions, whatever the water conditions.

Unfortunately, the aquarist or pond keeper may be unable to determine proper test readings when using many of the test kits provided by pet and aquarium stores, particularly for those tests that are less expensive. They simply are not accurate enough for aquarium and pond water conditions.

Regardless of what the aquarium and pond water test kits say in their test results, in all uses one dose of AmQuel+ will at least permanently remove/detoxify the entire amount of chlorines (and break the chloramines bond that combines the chlorine to ammonia) that are added to the water by public water suppliers.

For the ammonia/ammonium present in the water due to the chloramines and from what is naturally present, the addition of AmQuel or AmQuel+ per dose will permanently remove/detoxify at least 1.2 ppm of all forms of ammonia (ammonia and ammonium). To remove all other toxic nitrogen compounds, one dose of AmQuel+ will permanently remove/detoxify at least 2 ppm of nitrites, 13 ppm of nitrates, and many other toxic nitrogen compounds in addition to its removing 1.2 ppm ammonia/ammonium. Kordon AmQuel Plus will remove/detoxify per dose mostly within five minutes at least the amount of ammonia/ammonium, nitrites, and nitrates as shown on the label, and often it will be more than shown on the label.

Aquarium and pond fishes and aquatic invertebrates should be kept in water that has below 0.25 or less ammonia. Higher amounts of ammonia, especially above 1.0 ppm, can be lethal to them. Nitrites should be kept near zero. Nitrates should be kept at 10 ppm or less.

Once these nitrogen compounds are removed by AmQuel+, the remains are permanently nontoxic and no longer are detected by any colorimetry water test kits. By "colorimetry" we mean those tests that are read by the amount of change in color that there is after the test is completed. The AmQuels do not interfere with the actions and feeding of beneficial bacteria in the water, or with the nitrogen cycle.

Independent laboratory tests of the water test kits on the market show that many of the colorimetry water test kits measuring nitrogen compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) that are presently sold for aquarium and pond use are to some extent inaccurate.

The basic problem is that reading low levels at parts per million requires great accuracy in reagents that cannot be provided at a cheap price. Scientific/technical grade test-kit reagents that are considerably more expensive than the cheapest are needed for this purpose.

The trend has been to make aquarium and pond test kits ever more inexpensive and price competitive, but to do so means that lesser-grade materials have been used, with decreased accuracy, in some cases to being considerably inaccurate in test results. One problem is that the inexpensive test kits have shorter shelf lives, being less stable. When freshly made they may have been accurate, but over time they more quickly degrade.

The test kits using powder reagents are the most stable and accurate, usually with scientific accuracy. They are also the most expensive and have the longest shelf life. The test kits using liquid reagents vary widely in accuracy and shelf life, and are at intermediate cost.

Most tests using printed strips that are dipped in the water to obtain readings are by far the least accurate, and are the least expensive, with a short shelf life, regardless of what is indicated on their labels. In general, at best the strips' shelf life is <30 days after being opened.

While accurately testing for nitrogen compounds in water requires colorimetric test kits of high quality, this is particularly true for testing for nitrate. Getting an accurate reading from nitrate test kits is much more difficult, and the readings may be interfered with by the nitrogen compounds in the aquarium or pond water. A scientific/technical grade test kit is essential here.

A greater number of the salicylate ammonia test kits (reading from yellow to green to blue-green in test results), as well as some of the nitrite test kits are accurate enough to get a general reading for ammonia and nitrite, respectively.

There is one type of ammonia test kit to avoid. This is the Nessler test which was developed for testing water for those live seafood (lobsters, crabs, mollusks, some shrimp) that have a high tolerance for ammonia. The Nessler test reads best at the high range of 3-10 or more ppm ammonia, which is far too toxic for fishes, but fine the live seafood listed above. The Nessler test is not compatible to use with fish and aquarium invertebrates that need to be kept below 0.25 ppm ammonia.
The proper test to use for aquariums and ponds is the ammonia Salicylate test kit that reads accurately the lower range needed for aquarium keeping between 0-1.0 ppm. The Nessler test reads in shades of yellow or amber for all its readings. The Salicylate test reads in shades of yellow to green to blue-green, and is much easier to read than the Nessler test.

The Nessler test should not be used with the AmQuel/AmQuel+ products, because the chemicals in these products interfere with the Nessler yellow color readings, often turning the readings to brown or black. The Salicylate test is the proper test kit to use for aquarium and pond use in order to provide accurate readings of the ammonia in the water at the levels that are important to them.

A general rule worth following for all water quality tests is not to use colorimetry kits that do not provide the "use before" date for their reagents. When out of date, the readings may be inaccurate. Do not expect that kits when purchased are always fresh and "in date." They may have been stored for some time and under adverse conditions, and actually be out of date, or nearly so, even when they say otherwise. Knowing the quality of the test kits you are using is important.

You can depend on all Kordon Aqua-Tru Water Quality Test Kits to be accurate and easy to read, with dated scientific/technical grade (powdered) reagents. If they go out of date, Kordon will replace them free. Pet/aquarium/pond stores that handle Kordon products can order these test kits for you from their wholesale distributors. For a convenient Internet site providing these test kits, see the Novalek web site http://www.novalek.com and go to NovaShop for pricing and ordering information under the Fish/aquatics and Test Kit categories.

One last point. For tap water coming from water utilities, well water, and other natural sources, there is another concern for aquarium and pond keeping. Water passing through pipes also needs to be treated to get rid of the "heavy metals" (zinc, copper, iron, lead, etc.) that get into the water from the pipes and are toxic to fishes and aquatic invertebrates. Kordon's NovAqua+ takes care of this, as well as takes care of other water conditioning needs for aquatic life that Kordon Amquel+ does not do. Both products are needed for aquarium and pond keeping.

Remember: "Fish Keeping is Water Keeping."

[Mustafa]

Very curious and very suspect. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Both reports are from the same source and they both cite a report paid for by an offended party. Doesn't mean it isn't true, just means it is suspect.

Yes, I realize that it's not a completely impartial source, but at least they offer the lab report to anyone who asks for it. Novalek/Kordon offers absolutely no explanation how this "nitrate removal" mechanism is supposed to work.

I think I'll also take a sample of treated water with know nitrate level over to the chemistry department at my plant. I'll see what they come up with.

Let us know.

[Mustafa]

I e-mailed Kordon and Robert Rofen wrote me back. He sure didn't sound like marketing hype to me. Here is what he said:

Actually, if you read it carefully there is a LOT of marketing language in there, but that's besides the point. I hope you realize that this is a pre-prepared email that is sent to anyone who asks about how Amquel+ works.

It still does not answer the question about the exact mechanism of nitrate "removal." Actually, if you read carefully, it confirms my assertion that the nitrate is not removed but "detoxified." In other words, it's bound to something (some other molecule) so it's less toxic or even non-toxic. However, it's still there. And that's what might be a problem. Since shrimp are sensitive to all dissolved organics the bound up nitrate would still be a problem, even if it's not picked up by nitrate tests.

In other words, Amquel+ might detoxify nitrate as they state but it's most definitely not "removed" as that is a physical impossibility in this case. Molecules don't just disappear...they are either broken down (like chloramines and chlorine) or bound to something else (like heavy metals and nitrate).

Bottom line...I really need them to explain the mechanism of nitrate detoxification for me to be able to evaluate their product properly with regards to shrimp. Then they would have to explain if and how they have done any research into how fish and invertebrates reacted to the the bound up (i.e. "detoxified") nitrate.

[Shrimp&Snails]

I used to believe the hype surrounding a certain bottle of "magic cycling liquid" which would help your tank cycle super fast.

I wonder though if Amquel Plus really does what it states......if anyone experiments with it please post the results.

[badflash]

Kordon writes back:

As for what happens to the toxic nitrogen compounds when exposed to AmQuel+, they are broken apart. Some of the components are gassed out into the atmosphere, some are consumed by bacteria that are not concerned with the differences that there are from the regular ammonia/ammonium and nitrite compounds, etc., and the remainder remain nontoxic in the water until removed by water changes, or whatever.

Regarding the claim you mention that "Amquel+ prevents the test kits from reading nitrates that are actually there" is unknown to me other than the claims on the AquaScience Research Group web site presented without substantiation. Where are there claims being made by others than ARG and what is their justification? I would like to see the sources of that information, if you know of any.

So what we have is chemistry. It is quite possible to break down nitrates as they are just nitrogen and oxygen. It isn't like we are try to do nuclear fusion.

[Mustafa]

What bothers me is that the gentleman at Kordon talks around the nitrate issue. I don't know if he is doing that on purpose or not but it almost seems that way. He is still not explaining what happens to the nitrate but is just talking generally about "nitrogen compounds" which encompasses ammonium/ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I already know what happens to ammonium/ammonia and nitrite (biological filter takes care of it), but what exactly happens to the NITRATE after Amquel+ binds it? Or does it break it apart?

In other words...there is still no explanation beyond a vague reference to what happens to nitrogen compounds in general. I know they have a patent pending and don't want to divulge too much information, but a general explanation without listing all the chemical reactions would do. I know I might be nitpicking, but in these kinds of discussions it's the tiny details that count.

[Kenshin]

No bad feelings badflash but I also do agree with Mustafa on this subject because of my biology background . The nitrogen cycle is basically organic waste containing a ammonium group (such as amino acids from proteins) -> NH3+ -> NO2 -> NO3 -> NO -> N2O or N2 (N2 can be released back into our air or converted back to NH3+ by nitrogen fixation bacteria such as legumes symbioses: eg: soybean plant) broken down by certain types of bacterium. If the Amequel is really that good, it will market its product by stating: "breaks down nitrate or NO2". I also learned it the hard way so far, water changes per week are the safest way to deal with nitrate problems.

[badflash]

If you try some you will see. Add a tiny bit of miracle grow to get 13 ppm nitrate in a gallon of water. Use your best nitrate test kit and verify the nitrate level. Next add 1/2 ml of amquel+, stir well, wait a minute and test it. I come up with nothing. Verify it yourself.

Nitrates can undergo chemical reactions and turn into gasses. In an extreme case you have gunpowder, but I'm sure there are less explosive and slower reactions that do much the same.

Even if the compounds are just inerted in some way, as long as they don't hurt the shrimp, it should not matter. I'm not advocating cutting back on water changes, but you can use all the help you can get.

[Mustafa]

If you try some you will see. Add a tiny bit of miracle grow to get 13 ppm nitrate in a gallon of water. Use your best nitrate test kit and verify the nitrate level. Next add 1/2 ml of amquel+, stir well, wait a minute and test it. I come up with nothing. Verify it yourself.

I would try it if I had some amquel.

Nitrates can undergo chemical reactions and turn into gasses. In an extreme case you have gunpowder, but I'm sure there are less explosive and slower reactions that do much the same.

The problem is not that they *can.* The problem is that there is no explanation from Kordon's side (or Seachem's side for that matter) how their product actually "removes" the nitrate. That's the point. I know this is not a court of law, but if someone claims something in court, then the burden of proof is on the claimer. It just makes no sense that someone claims something and shift the burden of proof on other people to disprove their claim. In other words, it just does not work that a claim is valid until others disprove it. It should be the other way around.

Even if the compounds are just inerted in some way, as long as they don't hurt the shrimp, it should not matter. I'm not advocating cutting back on water changes, but you can use all the help you can get.

See...we don't know if they hurt shrimp/fish in the long run or not. I don't see any studies/research by any company that shows that they have actually tested their products with fish/shrimp by reducing water changes and just keep adding their product to "remove" nitrates and other organics.

I know *you* are not advocating cutting back on water changes, but Kordon for sure does. Just read what it says on the back of your bottle. Something like: "Reduces the need for water changes."

You know what's going to happen when people read that. They are going to cut back on water changes and keep dumping Amquel+ into their already small tanks and then wonder why their fish/shrimp are sick/dying. Even if you cannot measure nitrate and even if Amquel+ really gets rid of it, there are still numerous other dissolved organics in the water that need to be removed. But wait....Amquel+ claims that it removes THOSE, too. What is this? A miracle potion? No more water changes EVER? The only reason we need water changes is to remove those dissolved organics that are produced by the inhabitants of the tank. If there is a miracle potion that removes all dissolved organics, then we don't need water changes. But wait....Kordon just says that you can "cut back" on water, not stop changing your water altogether. There's a contradiction. Obviously, Kordon is not all that sure about the "removal" of dissolved organics.

So, bottom line. I don't but *all* the claims they make on the bottle. I'm sure it's a great product to solve the chlorine/chloramine problem just like seachem prime is, but that's it. Advocating cutting back on water changes without presenting some solid evidence is just not the right way to go.