Red cherry shrimp set-up

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:23 am

It wasnt too long ago that I had got my first batch of Red Cherry Shrimp. For like a month I was hovering around the tank constantly. Micromanaging and worrying over every little detail. Once I got the feel for them they seemed extremely easy to care for.

A very general rule of thumb Ive found that seems to work with Dwarf Cajuns, Red Cherries, and Marbled Crayfish is that if you have a healthy population of little freshwater copepods darting about your tank then your Cherries should be able to reproduce and settle in just fine.

Ive become so relaxed over noticing the copepods that I tend to do less water changing than is typically suggested. Every so often I look into my tanks and if the copepod population is abundant then I dont change the water. If the population has grown smaller and less active then I do a water change.

I dont recommend this strategy its just kindof developed for me as I have grown comfortable with the species that I keep. I just wanted to give you some information that may ease your nerves a bit. Take a good look into the tank and if you see the little copepods darting about then your shrimp should be alright after they get comfortable......

And once they really settle in and you grow comfortable with them you may want to check out this thread...and see peoples reactions and experirnces..
viewtopic.php?t=2321&highlight=freshwater+sponges

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:53 am

Well....There are copepods and daphnia all over the place, but as a precaution I've separated them into 3 tanks. Two of the shrimp in the original tank are either dying or molting. They lay on their sides for a few seconds (seems like an eternity) and slowly the tail just behind the swimmerettes folds to a 90 degree angle. The swimmerettes and legs twitching all the while. After a few seconds of holding this very uncomfortable looking pose, the tail kicks hard and the shrimp comes flying up off the bottom only to loop around a couple times and fall to the bottom right side up. They then lay down and do it all over again.

Some very odd observations. I just hope that everything does settle out well. At the moment, I'm just a 180 pound pile of nerves.

Thanks again,

Larry Vires

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:31 pm

When you tested the water did you test for nitrates?
No fertilizers?
or Snail killing chemicals in the water?

Keep us updated on whats going on...

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:30 pm

Hello again,

Nitrates are 0-1 ppm, NO2=0, NH3/NH4=0, pH=7.8, DO=7.8ppm, TDS=810, alkalinity=23ppm. No fertilizer or CO2 used. Lighting is direct sunlight. Temperature has increased since the shrimps introduction from 74 to 81. Most of them have settled out, and one of the 2 has molted. The other is still alive, but not very active at all. The only noticeable movement is the gills and the occasional twitch of the front legs.

I emailed the individual that I bought the shrimp from, and was told that the increased activity that I was seeing is probably caused by the fresh water in the tanks. Apparently, they get frisky after a water change. As a newby to this aspect of the hobby, I'm still going to stay nervous till I get accustomed to their behavior. After that, knowing how I tend to go overboard, I will probably have a couple dozen tanks set up.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:15 pm

Larry,
It sounds like your new shrimp are doing great.
They are far more active than Amanos if youv'e kept those before to compare.
They really behave a lot like a miniature black ghosts in the sense that they are active in all three orthagonal directions. They hardly have a "top." Any position and direction is normal. Abnormal behavior is to lay motionless on their side or any change from transparency to translucency.

They are also feeding on the move. They will actively pursue living foods in midwater such as microworms, bbs and they are particularly fond of Grindal worms if you happen to also culture those.
I feed mine FD cyclop-eeze and frozen Cyclop-eeze when I can find it. I think it helps bring out their color.
Other times they will do more detailed feeding as they graze alge and diatoms. I have Aquaclear #50 HOB filters on some of my ten gallons shrimp tanks, They enjoy the brisk current but it is the sponge pre-filters I put on the intakes where they will mass to feed on the food drawn to and stuck on the surface. Also the algae that begins to grow on the prefilter adds to their attraction. I think the "Aufwiches" that flourish there round out the pre-filter smorgasboard. There other favorite hunting grounds are the surfaces of driftwood. The very small newly hatched shrimps can be seen exploring for food deep in the fine cracks where the adult can't fully exploit the bounty.
I used to primarily use Najas guadelupensis as my "shrimp" plant but over time I find they prefer the more open structure of natant Ceratophllylum.

I continue to introduce them to other tanks where they have to share the space and as long as the fish are small it works well although understandably they are not as successful at reproduction.

This may interest you. The Red cherry Shrimp do especially well in pleco and Corydoras fry tanks.

Larry W.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:01 pm

Bad news,

So far, 5 of the cherries have died. Short of testing for complex compounds that have absolutely no business being in tap water, I've tested for everything that I can think of time and again. The shrimp are laying over on their sides, just like the one that molted earlier. The only movements that can be seen is the pumping of the gills through the side of their heads. No external movement at all. I am at a complete and total loss for any possibilities. All the chemical parameters are still the same and most of them have been munching copepods and daphnia from the plants all evening.

Please help,

Larry Vires

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Test for copper and Iron.

TKD

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:41 pm

Already done, and nothing. I was looking for a challenge with inverts, and definitely found it. Now comes the question of whether I can figure this out soon enough to give this aspect of the hobby a chance.

Larry Vires

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:08 am

Only two out of three of the major advertisors of pet shrimp are good suppliers and they are both back East.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu May 03, 2007 3:13 am

If you got wild caught and not tank bred shrimp, it would explain your losses, especially if you got adults vs. juvie shrimp. By the time wild caught get toy our tank, theyare so stressed that most die within a few weeks.

I'd advise finding someone who breeds them and get about 10 juvies from them to start up your system. If you have daphnia, you can pretty much rule out water problems.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:32 am

Hello,

I'm glad that you pointed out about the daphnia. I probably ran 300 tests last night, up till 1 a.m., to figure out that I had done nothing wrong. The seller of these shrimp, as far as I know, is not commercial. Most of the shrimp recieved were1/4-3/8 inch, but 2 were close to 3/4 inch. The deaths aren't any worse this morning, but I did notice 1 that just fell over onto his side as soon as I turned the light on. This caught my attention because it reminds me of the symptoms of toxic shock. At any rate, now all I can do is ride it out and hope for a happy ending.

The remaining shrimp are eating rather well. I've been adding copepods and rotifers from my culture hoping a bit of quality food will make them want to live. No sooner than I get the dropper into the tank, all of them are swimming through it. Hopefully, that is a good sign.

Larry Vires

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:20 am

I don't think RCS eat rotifers or daphnia to any big degree. They are just a really good indicator that you don't need to worry about water quality.

I've found that with many inverts there is a die-off with new animals in the transition to your water. Once that make it past about 3 weeks will be acclimated and should start breeding.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:00 am

I know that after receiiving two overpriced orders of dead and dying shrimp I retrenched from the shrimp hobby and then I found Mustafa's store, ordered, they all arrived alive and then my tanks become filled with hundreds of shrimp I regained my interest in them.

I have since tried bee shrimp but despite their arriving in good condition I haven't have quite found or created the environment they find conducive for reproduction, yet.

Until I understand their requiremens better I won't be trying the crstal red mutation.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:44 am

Hello,

I have to disagree about the eating. I've seen them eat all the organisms I've added to the tank. They don't actively chase the daphnia, but definitely eat them if they happen to settle on the java moss close by.

Sadly, Mustafa isn't selling anything at the moment. I would've taken bee or crystal reds if I could've found them reasonably, and waited on the RCS. Those are what got me interested in shrimp. I'm hoping that the RCS survive and get my confidence back up. I had been talking to a Japanese exporter about getting crystal reds. I am assuming that the strain I have been looking at is called "no entry" since it has been called that on several of the pages I've looked at. I'm not about to spend that kind of money if I can't even keep cherries though.

Thanks again for all the help,

Larry Vires

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:06 am

badflash wrote:I don't think RCS eat rotifers or daphnia to any big degree. They are just a really good indicator that you don't need to worry about water quality.

I've found that with many inverts there is a die-off with new animals in the transition to your water. Once that make it past about 3 weeks will be acclimated and should start breeding.

Hi badflash,
I haven't ever tried feeding Daphnia to rcs and there are rotifers and then there are rotifers. Many common rotifer species attach themselves to a substrate, Vorticella, for example and just make up part ofthe microscopic diversity of life aonf the leaf substrate and other surfaces and are just a part of the variety of organisms the shrimp are eating when we see them picking at what seems to be invisible foods. I have never cultured a specific species of rotifer like those used in mariculture which tend to be free swimmming. I think a quick look at the leaf 'sludge" under your microscope will reveal an amazing diversity of life thaat make up a large part of shrimps diets. I know I see a veritable zoo when I check out my sludge under my microscope. It is these microfauna that are the primary foods for the zoae.
However the rcs do capture brine shrimp nauplii out of midwater when I feed them to the shrimp.