Petshrimp.com Discussion Forum

badflash wrote: He hasn't presented any scientific proof of this, but when I've gone contrary to his advice the results have been less then optimal... actually pretty disastererous.

When it comes to breeding/keeping experience in the shrimp hobby, that's where scientists are not of much help. There are really no papers about what the optimal aquarium environment for shrimp is. That's why we have to be scientists ourselves and conduct experiments, put up theories/hypotheses and prove/disprove them. I have experimental proof that a tank stuffed with Najas outcompetes algae and other microorganisms in a closed system (=aquarium) by taking up nutrients and shading out other light-dependent microorganisms, and thus deprives our shrimp of their natural food. If an overwhelming majority of you guys go out and perform your own experiments and find out that a tank full of Najas actually works wonders for your shrimp and their population explodes (and stays there instead of crashing), then my hypotheses will have been proven wrong and I will have to go back to drawing board and find out what other factors might have contributed to the lack of breeding/keeping success in the Najas tank.

That's how peer review works in the scientific world, too. It's called peer review. Proof, disproof, thesis, antithesis...etc...etc. Scientists can give us information about species names, habitat, mode of reproduction etc..etc...but it's up to all of us to research the best way to keep these creatures in captivity over several generations.

Hmm, Interesting notes Mustafa.

NewJohn, I don't know if the RCS were in that tank anymore. Thanks for the advice too. I almost always cycle my tanks before putting something in it. I usually do a fishless cycle, or transer a mature filter/cartridge to the new tank.

-John (AKA: The Puffer Ninja)

As far as wierdness, my wife now has field trips to my aquarium & my neighbors invite me over to pick dandelions. If you are constantly odd, it isn't strange.

Awwwww, they have accepted you for what you and your hobby are. We should all hope for that

Guys,

I have a quick question. Is it advisable only to use Java moss or will it be ok if i use other types of moss also.

I currently have RCS, CRS and Tiger shrimps. I am setting a new tank for them and in that i have other types of moss including java moss. Please advise.

Regards,

Sridhar.P

Other types of moss whould be alright to use. They should provide your shrimp with the same benefits as java moss

sridharp77 wrote:Guys,

I have a quick question. Is it advisable only to use Java moss or will it be ok if i use other types of moss also.

I currently have RCS, CRS and Tiger shrimps. I am setting a new tank for them and in that i have other types of moss including java moss. Please advise.

Regards,

Sridhar.P

What other types?

Hi,

The following are the mosses that are in my tank.

1) Christmas Moss
2) Peacock Moss
3) Spiky Moss
4) Two Fissiden Species ( I donot know their name)

Regards,

Sridhar.P

One of my tanks is absolutely FULL of a blend of Java and other mosses. I've noticed that my snail population is not reproducing as rapidly as it had before, and I am beginning to suspect that an over-abundance of moss can have the same effect. I'll be pulling half of the moss out this week and moving it into my next shrimp tank. . . .

Has this only effected your snails or have the shrimp reproduction also been slowing down?

YuccaPatrol wrote:One of my tanks is absolutely FULL of a blend of Java and other mosses. I've noticed that my snail population is not reproducing as rapidly as it had before, and I am beginning to suspect that an over-abundance of moss can have the same effect. I'll be pulling half of the moss out this week and moving it into my next shrimp tank. . . .

Your intuition is correct. Even with moss you can overdo it. If the tank is stuffed with moss, then the moss effectively shades out and nutritionally outcompetes algae and other microorganisms.

My ongoing research is actually suggesting that a tank without any plants is optimal for dwarf shrimp. That's bad news for planted tank enthusiasts. The algae and biofilm that grows in such a tank does an amazing job on nitrates (given high light levels) AND provides the shrimp with food. When my tanks were stuffed full with Najas (and some with Java moss), I had to fight an ongoing battle to keep the nitrates down. Even with water changes every two days I could not get the nitrates to be significantly below 5 ppm. Now, I don't register any nitrates in my plantless, relatively high light (about 2.6 watts per gallon) tanks. They all have algae growing on the sides of the tank. Algae seem to be far superior to plants when it comes to nitrate reduction. I'm sure plants can reduce your nitrate to zero in high tech (CO2), high light, highly fertilized tanks, too, but such a tank is not optimal for shrimp. Algae reduce your nitrates without fertilizer and high tech Co2 injection and super high lights AND they feed your shrimp.

The funny thing is that I had started out with plantless shrimp tanks and was extremely successful at breeding *hundreds* of red cherry shrimp *every month* out of a single 10 gallon tank a few years ago. Then I started experimenting with different setups including various plants and the problems started. Now I am going back to the basics again.

Just one more pointer....

Mustafa wrote:The algae and biofilm that grows in such a tank does an amazing job on nitrates (given high light levels) AND provides the shrimp with food. When my tanks were stuffed full with Najas (and some with Java moss), I had to fight an ongoing battle to keep the nitrates down. Even with water changes every two days I could not get the nitrates to be significantly below 5 ppm. Now, I don't register any nitrates in my plantless, relatively high light (about 2.6 watts per gallon) tanks. They all have algae growing on the sides of the tank. Algae seem to be far superior to plants when it comes to nitrate reduction.

What is it that the plants out compete the algae for? If it isn't nitrates, what isit, light? I'm not seeing measurable nitrates in my tanks, but I'm not get 100+ cherries a month either.

When you are talking algea, this is the surface kind and not green water? That would be pretty cool to just feed them light.

badflash wrote:
What is it that the plants out compete the algae for? If it isn't nitrates, what isit, light? I'm not seeing measurable nitrates in my tanks, but I'm not get 100+ cherries a month either.

When you are talking algea, this is the surface kind and not green water? That would be pretty cool to just feed them light.

No, not green water. Algae that grows on surfaces, including brown algae/diatoms etc. The plants compete with algae both for light and for micronutrients. So, even if you have no measurable nitrates, competition is still going on. Plus, some plant species produce chemicals that literally kill algae and some other plants around them. This has been documented. There is a specific term for this, which I don't remember right now. I'll have to look it up.

Mustafa

Is this the Algae that makes rock's slippery, even if you can't see it ?

Sorry for the non-scientific language.

John

Newjohn wrote:Mustafa

Is this the Algae that makes rock's slippery, even if you can't see it ?

Sorry for the non-scientific language.

John

It's probably what's called "biofilm." It's a matrix of algae and other microorganisms. That's what the shrimp eat.

I forgot to do it this morning, but tomorrow I will take a piece of magnolia leaf from one of my tanks to the lab and look at the biofilm under the scope.

My magnolia leaf doesn't have visible algae because the snails and shrimp eat anything that would be visible to me, but I know there must be a diverse population of micro-organisms all over the leaves.

So, tomorrow I will give a report of what I find. . .

As Mustafa has said, I'll almost certainly find a diverse collection of bacteria, unicellular algae, and other protists and micro-organisms. . .. .

In the lab, I have a 5 gallon tank full of a cyanobacteria species growing in lake water. I use it as a holding tank for my cyanobacteria and it has a representative population of snails, amphipods, and micro-organisms from the collection site. I brought home a 1/2 liter bottle of water from this culture today, and tossed it into my magnolia leaf tank today to add some more good stuff in there.