Asian Filter Shrimps Ill? Advice Please!

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:28 am

Hi everyone,
I have just registered as I am quite concerned about my two Asian Filter Shrimp

(which strangely were called 'Mountain Shrimp' when I purchased them)

I have two Asian Filter Shrimp which I keep with 10 small 'White Cloud Mountain Minnow' and 2 'Glass Catfish'

My tank is relatively new - only one month old, and I bought them both about two weeks ago. They were both feeding just fine until the other day when they started hunching their backs and sort of grooming/cleaning(?) their pairs of 'fins' under their backs? They have continued to do this for the last day or so. The only thing I have changed is that I have added another aquatic plant in to the tank - i'm not sure if thats relevent or not though.

When I got them, they were both brown, but last week one of them moulted its skin and turned orangey/red with a white stripe down its back whilst the other has stayed brown(it hasnt moulted though).

I am most concerned about the red/white striped one which I call 'Ted' as he doesnt seem to be eating at all - the other one which I called 'Dougle' is bigger and brown and is eating very small amounts, but both of them are just sitting there hunched up with their underneath back fins waving around and their legs sort of 'grooming them' - All their front 'filters' are closed.

They both used to sit together with their front 'filters' spread out as you can see in this photo of them:-

Now they just sit apart, and hang off the plants/rocks hunched up doing the 'grooming' thing and not eating...

Oh, and the other day 'Ted' went to the surface of the tank and sort of 'floated' vertically with his head slightly out of the water - I actually thought he was dead for a minute. He has gone back down now though.

Does anyone have any advice? I was told by the pet shop that they are just filter feeders and that I didnt need to feed them anything special, "Just feed the fish and they'll eat the leftovers" I was told, but I have made sure to give extra food to the fish so that some would fall to the floor for them, and I have also just bought some variaties of frozen food:- daphnia, bloodworm and tubifex etc which I gave them yesterday but they didnt seem too interested

Sorry for the long post - I just wanted to be sure I mentioned everything...
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Post by **Mustafa** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:24 pm

I would not worry much at this point. These shrimp do not filter around too much right before and right after molting. So the decrease in activity is absolutely normal. And the color change is normal, too, especially in soft, acidic water. I used to have a pair about 4-5 year ago in *really* acidic water (PH under 6), which would turn bright red and stay that way for several days right after molting.

GunmetalBlue · Post by **GunmetalBlue** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:27 pm

Hi Raptor83, welcome to the forum.

Something that concerns me though is how new your tank is - it sounds like you are saying the Bamboo shrimp were in the tank after only two weeks after it was set up? Also there is the addition of 12 other inhabitants and so, I am wondering if your tank is cycled yet? If not, you may not yet have enough beneficial bacteria to take up the bioload the fish and shrimp produce.

Do you by any chance have test kits for ammonia and nitrite? Basically, you want those numbers to be just about zero as they are toxic to fish and shrimp.

What size is your tank? Also wanted to mention filter feeders enjoy a tank with some decent current, since that's a big part of how they feed, so hope that's not a problem for your tank.

I do hope nothing's really wrong - keep us updated on how they do.

-GB

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:22 pm

They like a good flow of water, so be sure there is some sort of good flow like form an over the side tank filter and some rocks under it for them to perch on. This also keeps small particles in the water for them. I power my fish food so they can filter it.

I've had mine several months now and keep them in pH 7.2 hard water. The color and stripes are a good sign. When mione got confortable they started looking like that.

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:22 am

Hi everyone, thanks for all your replies

I am little relieved to see that they are now eating every so often - the bigger brown shrimp I call 'Dougle' has just started getting a cream stripe down his back aswell - which I understand is a good sign?

I am still abit worried about Ted though, he has started swimming around (I have never seen them swim before) but is still not eating much. He is still staying hunched up rubbing his back legs against his back 'paddles/filters' here is a picture of him doing it:-

What also concerns me is that every so often he seems to 'fall' onto his side whilst doing it

I am not sure if I am making a big deal out of nothing, or not? - could it just be that they are no longer hungry? As in the pet shop there were 30 or more in a tiny tank all piled up on one another

I want to do everything right by them, and be a good shrimp owner. I hope I have done everything correctly. I have a 10 Gallon Hexagonal Tank that has a good flow of current going round it. I am sure there is a good current as I can see the food going round the tank, and the Clear Catfish seem to love swimming in the current - not moving but just swimming in the same spot.

I am not sure what you mean by 'cycled' though?

I got the tank a week before Christmas and set it up straight away with gravel and one plant and left it for one week to settle. I then added a few minnow and left it another two weeks to see how they'd do, and they seemed fine so I added all the other tank inhabitants - all small/tiny community fish and the two shrimp. I also put a terracota pot in the tank as you can see in the photos, so that the shrimp can hide away if they want to.
Did I do this right?

I also added Tetra 'Aquasafe' and Tetra 'Easybalance' so I hoped I would be sorted for nitrates etc?

The only other thing I can think of which I thought could be a reason for the strange behaviour was the aquatic plants I added. If not the plants themseleves I thought it could be the metal weights on the bottom - so I took them off yesterday just in case.

Am I just mistaking normal shrimp behaviour for something abnormal? I have never owned shrimp before you see...

Any more help/knowledge or advice would be great.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:49 am

I suspect he is about to molt. Just hang in there and let nature take its course. Be sure there is a good place he can hide when the time comes as they feel very vulnerable before the shell hardens up.

As to cycled- it means that the tank has been running with snails and fish long enough to allow the natural bacteria to go to work breaking stuff down and making the water "natural". A new tank is very hard on shrimp.

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:01 pm

Do they molt very frequently then? As this shrimp - 'Ted' -has just molted about 10 days ago, would it be normal for them to molt again so quickly?

Thanks for telling me what 'cycled' means, I wasnt aware that there was such a thing

I hope that there should be enough bacteria in the tank - as I did add all the water from each of the bags the fish, plants and shrimp came in from the pet shop. How long should I have waited for future reference?

tnnlynch · Post by **tnnlynch** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:25 pm

Here are a few links for background:
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

You can help by adding some gravel from an established tank or purchase live bacteria to assist. If you can find fresh refrigerated BIO-Spira - that has live bacteria. At this point you probably just want to watch the ammonia levels and perform frequent small water changes.

Go to this link and peruse the hobby websites. There are a lot of good general sites out there with good information about cycling tanks as well as specialty sites (like this one).

http://www.aquarank.com/index.php

Good luck
Tom

demented_lullaby · Post by **demented_lullaby** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:24 pm

You should buy an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kit. Basically when your nitrates are between 10~20 your ready to start SLOWLY adding fish(unless you did a fishless cycle with pure ammonia). Your ammonia and nitrites should be at 0.

Ammonia and nitrites are very hard on fish(and even more-so on shrimp). Molting within 10 days of the last time doesn't sound right to me. Also you should never add water from your LFS. It's best to net out the creatures or let them go in a bucket after floating and take them out with a cup. Not only does water have very little good bacteria but it can also contain diseases. Remember most LFS's have a filter that is all hooked up together for all aquairums they have.

I'd say just do a large water change(30-40%) and then keep up with weekly 20% water changes afterwards. It's probably a bit late for biospira.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:09 pm

I agree. If Ted molted only 10 days ago, a water may be an issue. If the tank isn't fully cycled though, a water change may work against you. You may just need to ride this out.

Test your water for Nitrates, and Phosphates. Get a drop type kit, not strips. If you have more around 20 ppm nitrates or 3 ppm phosphate that could be the issue. It usually won't kill them, but it isn't good for them. Seachem Prime of Amquel+ will remove nitrates instantly. Depending on the concentration, water changes or a phosphate absorber will reduce the phosphates. Water changes cost a lot less but are a lot more work.

When water quality changes rapidly, it is not unusual for them to molt.

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:31 am

Thanks everyone for all your help - ill get a test kit as soon as possible. I just wondered if anyone knows why they rub/itch there legs against there back 'fins/filters'? Is it normal? If not is there any chance it could be a parasite? Or could the new plants of had pesticides on them - or would that have killed them immediately?

Also, Mustafa, I just wondered if you had perhaps considered writing a shrimp behaviour article, perhaps saying what is 'normal' shrimp behaviour and what is abnormal? Just an idea...

Again many thanks for everyones help/advice

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:24 am

Hi again,
Sorry to double post, but it looks like Ted has had a turn for the worse, he is now on his side with only his pleopods waving slowly

- I dont know what I should do. I was going to get a test kit tomorrow but it may be too late. I did a 25% water change this morning when I saw him on his side but it doesnt seem to have helped. Could it have been pesticides on the plants? As it all seemed to start when I added them. I'm gussing there isnt much else I can do...?
On another note Dougle the other shrimp seems to be doing OK, he has been filtering and feeding off the gravel/rocks etc today - although he is still 'itching' his pleopods with his back legs - the same as Ted was doing the other day, which is a little worrying...

Anymore advice? Thanks again

Post by **Mustafa** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:00 pm

raptor83 wrote:Also, Mustafa, I just wondered if you had perhaps considered writing a shrimp behaviour article, perhaps saying what is 'normal' shrimp behaviour and what is abnormal? Just an idea...

It's all in the works.

raptor83 · Post by **raptor83** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:07 pm

Hi Mustafa
Thats great news regarding the article! Perhaps even a 'behaviour' section for eatch type of shrimp may be a good idea? Anyway, I look forward to reading the article

'Ted' is rather surprisingly still alive (surpising to me anyway, given his condition yesterday) but he is still rubbing/itching his pleopods. I performed another 20% water change today, so I hope it helps him.

I also did abit of research using Google and came up with this article:-
http://www.vliz.be/vmdcdata/Imis2/Ref.p ... efid=15891
I know it isnt refering to shrimps, but it is about another crustacean, and it says "N. borealis was able to sense sudden reduction in salinity and it responded by curling the body and rubbing the pleopods with the posterior pereopods" which sounds very much like what Ted is doing. Could it be a lack of salanity in the tank is the problem? I am tempted to add a level teaspoon of salt just to see if it helps at all, what does everyone think? Advice as always is very welcome

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:48 pm

A teaspoon probably won't hurt, but I don't think it will help either. Bamboos are tolerant to some salinity, but I don't know about your fish. Most can stand a little as it is a standard Ick treatment.

If I were you I'd do nothing but just keep the ater quality good and make sur there is something for them to eat, but not so much it fouls the water. Sometimes these guys are just sick with some sort of parasite, and there isn't much to be done about it. Right now these guys are all wild caught and you get what you get. One of mine was never right from the day I got him. He eventually died. The other 3 are all fine.