cherry red massive die off :(:( HELP!

gagaliya · Post by **gagaliya** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:50 pm

I have about 40 cherry red in my 10 gallon q tank, they were all doing well!

The plan is to move them to my new 50 gallon fully planted after it's stable. So i waited about 3 weeks after setting up the 50 gallon just to be safe. Then moved my cherry reds in, and just a few hours later to my horror, the cherry reds are dying by the dozens. The floors were littered with shrimp corpses!!! what is wrong!! please help!!!

I checked the following before moving my shrimp:

1) temperature in both tanks are identical
2) new tank has no ammonia/nitrite(fully planted and all), and nitrate at 10ppm
3) there are no other livestock in the tank, otherthan some tiny snails that hitched a ride when i got my plants
4) ph is stable at 7.2
5) water is treated

I dose (per instructed amount) the tank was seachem plantcare products - Flourish(trace elements), Flourish nitrogen(nitrate), potassium, and Phosphorus. And my substrate is eco-complete. They should all be safe for livestock. A lot of people use them and keep cherry reds.

So what's going on?:( why are my shrimps all dead.

gagaliya · Post by **gagaliya** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:10 pm

the dying process:

the shrimp will lie on the substrate unable to move, but you can see its tiny legs moving fast just that it cant flip itself over to normal balance. And eventually it dies.

edit: also noticed there are about 5 dead around a plant anchor. I bought it from bigals suppose to be aquarium safe. Could that be why?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/pro ... 349;pcid2=

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:59 pm

What is the copper and iron amount in the tank?

TKD

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:50 pm

Flourish nitrogen(nitrate), potassium, and Phosphorus

Have you been using that all along? If so for how long? How often and how much do you do water changes?

It sounds like you poisoned them. Plant ferts often contain stuff that kill shrimp. I know from personal experience that phosphates & nitrates are no good for cherry shrimp. From the sudden onset I think TKD is on the right track. Metal ions are lethal to shrimp.

Think back and see if you did something different. Otherwise it just built up to a point where it became lethal. If you want to have shrimp, lose the ferts.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:00 pm

It might be the ferts...

My problem was rocks leaching iron like crazy.
The copper was from using warm water (copper pipes)

TKD

Post by **Mustafa** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:46 pm

badflash wrote:If you want to have shrimp, lose the ferts.

I agree. Fertilizers just make the whole system unstable and even if it works for a while it might cause disaster over time, especially if you overdose, or ferts accumulate in the system over time (this can take months in some cases) and kill your shrimp. Plus, all that advice about keeping things like nitrate at certain ppm levels just does not "jive" with a shrimp tank as the best value for nitrate, phosphate etc. for a shrimp tank is 0 ppm. As luck has it, the plants best for shrimp tanks (Najas, Egeria, other fast growing plants) don't need any fertilizer besides what the shrimp produce for them (ammonia, nitrate etc.) and water changes deliver (micronutrients). And the reason for having those plants is to keep nitrates and phosphates at 0 and not at a certain prescribed "optimum" level.

gagaliya · Post by **gagaliya** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:18 pm

it's not possible to just lose the ferts. I know here everyone consider shrimp the centerpiece. But for me they will be part of a heavily planted tank, and those plants MUST have ferts - macro(NPK), micro and co2 etc.

There are many heavily fertilized / planted tank that has armies of shrimp in them. That's why i am puzzled, eco complete + seachem's fertizliers should not kill the shrimps. I am not even dosing the full amount too.

Could a drastic change in GH/KH kill the shrimps? that's the only two params i did not measure/compare. But most fish only tanks do not look at those two variables either when acclimating.

very odd...

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:56 am

I've never seen a change in hardness kill shrimp suddenly, or really at all. I do know that both my amanos and cherries would not even produce eggs, let alone reproduce with phosphates & nitrates above 5 ppm.

Massive die offs is a sign of poisoning. Amonia, copper, & iron can all do it. Most ferts have all of those. IMHO you need to make a choice. ferts or shrimp. There are plenty of plants that do just fine with no ferts, just what the shrimp & snails give them.

Lotus · Post by **Lotus** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:02 pm

I use ferts in my shrimp tanks without any problems. Maybe some people overdose their tanks and kill their shrimp.

gagaliya · Post by **gagaliya** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:08 am

hey just to followup, i tested for copper the next day using AP's liquid copper test kit and the result was 0 copper. The test tube water was crystal clear even after 5 mins.

Right now there is 1 single surviving shrimp left, he would bellyup, then come back to life, then belly up again.

what to do? i want to add amano shrimp etc to the tank as algae is starting to become a problem, but still couldnt figure out what went wrong with my tank.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:49 am

What are the readings for nitrIte, nitrAte, ammonia, PH and temperature. How big is the tank and how long has it been set up for?

gagaliya · Post by **gagaliya** » Mon May 01, 2006 7:43 am

Shrimp&Snails wrote:What are the readings for nitrIte, nitrAte, ammonia, PH and temperature. How big is the tank and how long has it been set up for?

ammonia/nitrite 0
nitrate 10
ph 7
KH 3
GH 7
temperature 77F (room temp, heaters are off for the summer)
tank 50 gallon
running for 1+ months, 1.5 week since added shrimp (massive die off)

think if i buy some amano shrimp, will they survive? what other params should i test?

bulrush · Post by **bulrush** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:12 am

Your plant weights usually contain lead, which is a heavy metal and is toxic to inverts.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:11 am

Actually plant weights don't contain any lead.

For all those shrimp to die at once there must have been something wrong with your water that you missed.

Perhaps it was PH shock? Or it could have been new tank syndrome.

Good luck with any future shrimp.

bulrush · Post by **bulrush** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:29 am

Shrimp&Snails wrote:Actually plant weights don't contain any lead.

My plant weights are strips of grayish metal, easily malleable, and quite dense. Package says "contains lead". What types of plant weights are you thinking of? Some type of coated weights?