cross breeding ideas

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Pea-brain
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cross breeding ideas

Post by Pea-brain »

okay i decided to make this little topic and I hope no one calls this stupid, but what do you think some interesting cross breeding ideas for shrimps would be? please be realistic and within the realm of possibility (No RCS/Macro combinations :lol: ) So pick what you think would make a good cross breed and what you would try to selectively breed into the shrimp (a specific look, color, personality trait, etc. that might be found through cross bredding) and let your imagination run wild!

Personally, I would like to see a cross between the american and amazon glass shrimp. it would probably be easier to breed than the american, have long claws and an extremely interesting personality.

PS. This post was made for fun. If someone sincerely wants to try any cross breeding then they should not sell the outcome and if they do they should be honest about the fact that it is a cross breed and what the parents were. Hopefully people will have a bit of fun and this may be worth our time in the future when we look back and say "wow this gave _____a really good idea that helped make a great new shrimp that hyped up mainstream popularity of the shrimp helped the shrimp hobby grow exponentially because of it" that is wishful think, yes, but if something like that happened it would be pretty cool :P
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Post by pturley »

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Last edited by pturley on Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YuccaPatrol
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Post by YuccaPatrol »

I'm in full agreement with Paul on this one.

It certainly is fun to think of potential interesting hybrids, but the risk of contaminating the hobby with hybrids is too great, especially considering that the chance of coming up with something truly outstanding is very slim.

If you do create some fantastic hybrid, it will probably take many years of selective breeding to come up with something hat is stable and true-breeding.

Your chances of finding a random interesting mutation and selecting for that are greater than your chances of creating the hybrid of your dreams.

So my best advice would be to set up a lot of tanks, get a lot of interesting species, and cross your fingers that you will be the lucky one to discover the next really neat mutant gene.
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Post by AnneRiceBowl »

I agree with what has already been posted. Keep it real in Caris keeping. 8)
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Post by zwergkrebszuechter »

I do not think there are that many shrimp or crayfish species that actually will crossbreed. If you keep aside the color morphs and type localities of one species of course. What will be the gain anyway? It will not produce new colors. For that you will have to wait for a mutation (or increase the chance for that by adding mutagenic agents, but thats dangerous and cannot be recommended)
Maybe one can get some changes in pattern. As the Japanese bred CRS and some wild "new bee" shrimp to produce their high grade critters.
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Post by Mustafa »

I'm with Yucca and Paul, too. Let's get as many *real* species, local variations, subspecies etc. etc. established in the hobby as possible (and by established I mean breeding populations, not just regular imports) before many species disappear from the wild. That's the priority now. This kind of topic, at least in the form presented by pea-brain, does not belong in a serious discussion forum anyway. The last thing you want to do in this forum is speculate and fantasize.

I've done a few "crossbreeding" experiments myself to study the genetic relationship between various shrimp varieties, but that's for a different purpose obviously. I put "crossbreeding" in quotes because some crosses might not be really interspecies crosses at all. For example, the tiger shrimp and the bee shrimp readily cross but they might belong to the same species or be subspecies of each other after all.

And no...the american glass shrimp and the amazon glass shrimp don't cross. Although both are Paleamonetes spp. they have different larval developments, which, so far, has been a great indicator. So, as a general rule species with different larval developments (i.e. number of larval stages if any) do not cross and hence don't seem to be very closely related.

zwergkrebszuechter wrote: As the Japanese bred CRS and some wild "new bee" shrimp to produce their high grade critters.
This is just speculation. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever so far that the white-head bumblebees (what you still confusingly call "new bee" :roll: ) can be crossed with the bee/crystal red shrimp. I have had a female white-head bumblebee in my crystal red colony for a few months and the male crystal reds are not showing the slightest interest in her even though she regularly develops eggs in her ovaries. These eggs are never fertilized and dropped immediately. I'm not saying that this "quick and dirty" experiment is conclusive, but that's the evidence I have so far. There are crystal red females in the tank so maybe the males just prefer their own species over the bumblebee and *maybe* they might choose to mate with the bumblebee if she were the only female in the tank. But that's just speculation at this point until someone actually tries it.

So, until someone can present real proof (i.e. detailed explanation of their experimental setup with pictures of parents and offspring *AND* people replicate this over time) that the white-head bumblebee, or any bumblebee variety for that matter, can cross with the bee/crystal red shrimp, let's not spread this rumor in the hobby. There are already enough rumors and misconceptions. A lot can be achieved with selective breeding, so just because some crystal reds start resembling bumblebees in color pattern does not mean that they have been crossed.

And yes...I know how the story got to Germany by the way...i.e. someone in Germany went to Japan and a Japanese breeder supposedly said that he crossed his crystal reds with "new bee" shrimp. Of course nobody considers the fact that japanese (just like many others still) are not that accurate when it comes to identifying various species/varieties of shrimp. For example the name "bee", "new bee", "bumblebee" are applied to various species and even various variations of the *same* species interchangeably! For example, depending on who you talk to, they might call a bee shrimp "bumblebee" (or even "tiger shrimp" actually) or a bumblebee shrimp "bee shrimp." I've even seen totally unrelated species from India called "bee" or even "tiger shrimp" shrimp on Japanese websites. One should keep that in mind when one decides if credence should be given to a rumor in the absence of hard evidence.
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Post by Pea-brain »

Sorry. I didn't realize that everyone was so touchy about it. I didn't actually think anyone would try any ideas or anything. I just thought it would be a fun little conversation everyone could join part in just for some speculation. I was afraid this would happen. This topic was just a little thing I whipped up before I went to bed for speculation and fun. NO INTENT ON ACTUAL CROSS BREEDING. I don't even know why I put that note on the end. If anyone just wants to play around with this thread and just speculate, then go ahead. If not then just let it die. Also i did realize that the chances of anything mentioned here being anything other than lookers, or even impossible, was very likely. I also realize that new species are being discovered we've yet to even scratch the surface. Again just speculation was intended....
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Post by FISH WORLD ERIE »

I do not "Bee"lieve in cross breeding either. I keep all my species seperated. I am also in the fish hobby and agree with Paul. There are far to many crossbreeds in the hobby right now and I would hate to see this happen with inverts as well. Keep it pure, keep it simple. Alot can be done with selective breeding however. Good luck with whatever you do pea-brain and I realize you were just trying to start a fun conversation but some of us take this and other hobbies serious.

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Post by badflash »

As the invert hobby expands both inadvertant and deliberate crosses are inevitable. As accidental crosses occur, most of us won't have the heart to euthanize them. This means that homes will be sought for them, and likely found. What is important is full disclosure.

As responsible people we need to try to preserve some pure lines. Every other domestic animal out there has been crossed & recrossed, so I expect we'll have to get used to the idea with inverts too.
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