Apple Snails and Shrimp, a warning.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:27 pm

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to tell all of you about some observations that I have made.

I had put a briggs apple snail and my Japanese trapdoor snails in with my cherries.

I have been noticing that my cherries we constantly picking at the snails and when they would open up they would pick at there exposed soft tissue.

They were not actually eating them just eating bits of things off the snails.

Still because I have so many shrimp it was getting to the point that the snail would stay shut in there shells almost all of the time.

I believe that I lost some new born Japanese trapdoor snails because of this.

I have since moved all the snails out of that tanks at they are active all of the time in their new one.

I should mention that I have over 500 cherries in that 15 Gal Tank.

Just a heads up,

TKD

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:01 am

I think you are right. I have had the same problem with my CRS and the snails in their tank. There are now a few snails that are just staying shut at the bottom of the tank

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:42 am

I've never seen this and have loads of both apple and JTS with my cherries. The cherries would not be bothering the snails, but must be interested in something on the snails.

I'd check for a bacterial infection of some type that the shrimp find attractive, but is making the shrimp interested.

What sort of snails are you keeping with CRS? Few snails do well in acidic water except pond snails and maybe some rams.

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:06 am

The mucous that snails produce is mostly composed of protein and it might make sense that the shrimp were eating this as a food source.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:44 pm

YuccaPatrol wrote:The mucous that snails produce is mostly composed of protein and it might make sense that the shrimp were eating this as a food source.

True, but even if the snails were being picked at by the shrimp, that wouldn't cause them to close up & die. Mine mix it up with the shrimp & crays at feeding time. My snails don't even close up when they crays pich their feelers during a food fight.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:49 pm

All I know is that in the cherry tank... not very active snails.
In new tank... very active snails

TKD

zwergkrebszuechter · Post by **zwergkrebszuechter** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:42 am

I have heard of cherry red shrimp eating adult Procambarus clarkii. That were thousands of them and few feeding. They were just starving I guess. Shrimp are oppurtinistic feeders that will feed on anything available if food is rare.
So give more food to your shrimp and your snails will not be bothered again.

Post by **Mustafa** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:38 am

zwergkrebszuechter wrote:I have heard of cherry red shrimp eating adult Procambarus clarkii.

I know that story. To avoid confusion, you might want to mention that, according to the story, the P. clarkii had just molted and was soft like butter.

Even so, I find it hard to believe that the shrimp can eat a healthy, freshly molted crayfish. The crayfish would just jump away and scare the shrimp away. What's more likely is that the crayfish just had a bad molt. Although it probably wasn't immediately dead, it was very weak and on its way out. That seems to be the most plausible explanation.

As for the apple snails...if you throw them into a shrimp tank for the first time, the shrimp will pick at them at first. If the snails are healthy however, they will emerge out of their shells after adjusting to the new tank and the shrimp won't show any interest anymore. That's been my experience.

I really doubt that even thousands of dwarf shrimp can kill anything. I think people just mistake the shrimp scavenging on already half-dead animals for actively killing them. The shrimp are just not capable of doing that.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:43 am

Not kill them directly, just harase them a hole lot to the point that they don't come out of there shell.

Any way this is what I have found for me.... experiences may vary

TKD

zwergkrebszuechter · Post by **zwergkrebszuechter** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:04 am

I have witnessed shrimp eat live and healthy mystery snail babies. If it is enough shrimp I think they can harrass another critter to death and eat the dead critter. It just dies of stress as it cannot escape the shimp horde. I also do not think that they can make an active kill. How should they, there are no pincers etc.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:12 pm

A cherry shrimp can not eat a live apple snail baby, but would be more than happy to eat a dead one. Macros are a different story though and would happily dine on any snail it can catch with its door open.

Many apple snails are more sensitive to water quality than even shrimp. I found that out when I started raising brigs a year ago. I'll bet if you moved some cherries into the tank with the healthy snails you would not see this. Like I said, I keep them together and always have. I even keep apple snails (adults) with my M. Rosenbergii who do pinch at them now & then.

When a snail closes up & stays closed up it is sick.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:21 pm

badflash, I am currently cycling a new shrimp tank and have some ramshorn snails in there at the moment. How sensitive are these snail to water conditions and are they a good gauge for telling if the tank is safe for my CRS?

Thanks

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:24 pm

Rams are pretty tough, about like pond snails. I have them in acidic conditions and they are doing fine. Apples are sissies of the snail world with brigs being the worst of the girlies. No idea if they are good for CRS or not.

pixl8r · Post by **pixl8r** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:53 pm

I'm keeping a few mystery snails in with my red claw juveniles. I've noticed that they will perch on the snail and look for food, but generally get out of the snail's way. The snails are a bit larger than a quarter.

I don't keep any snails with my adult red claws, I don't know if they'd be able to kill them or not, but I didn't want to bother.

In my 45g tank, I've got five mystery snails. Every once in a while my p. allenii will check one out, but leaves it alone after the door closes. I'll let you know if I find any problems.

Link to a picture of one of my young red claws hitching a ride on an ivory mystery snail.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x130/pixl8r/m-6.jpg

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:13 pm

Hello,

I've also noticed my cherries picking at the ramshorns in their tank. The snails just showed up after the tank had been set up for about 6 weeks, and were not intentionally placed there. I normally throw out any snails that I find, but I've never seen a strain with these markings before. I've worked retail/wholesale/import for over 20 years, and know that I have a marketable strain. Anyway, I've seen the shrimp pick on these to the point that they will close. I have less than a dozen shrimp in the tank, and have no doubt that a larger colony could easily stress the snails to the point that they would not come out. I've also seen the shrimp sit on the wall where a fresh clutch of eggs was hatching and pick off the newborns as they emerged. Normally I would move the critter causing me trouble. However, regardless of the strain, these are still ramshorn snails and produce more than my small colony of shrimp could eat in a week every day.

Larry Vires