Hi all, I'm new here. I have read many of the posts here and am intrigued by the concept of keeping shrimp in home aquaria. I hope to set up a shrimp tank soon.
I saw this news today and I was surprised that such small shrimp could be so dangerous. (link to AP "Ravenous Shrimp Found in Lake Ontario")
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ ... TE=DEFAULT
The article says "Scientists, meanwhile, are asking the public's help to catalog the extent of the red mysid invasion."
I sort of understand the fact that non-native species can disrupt the balance of things but this seems to be over-reacting. Aren't the majority of the shrimp people keep non-native (to the US)? Do we need to worry about other shrimp escaping?
Dangerous Shrimp (Hemimysis anomala)?
Moderator: Mustafa
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Neonshrimp
- Master Shrimp Nut
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- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 5:37 pm
- Location: California, USA
I tend to believe this will be the result. And for those of you who have access to these shrimp, be sure to try your hand at breeding them"It's hard to make predictions," said MacNeill, noting that there are a number of species of fish that will eat the red mysid, which could balance some of their negative influence.
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I highly doubt that this species is going to be a problem. I have never heard about any small shrimp-like crustacean species being a problem anywhere. That's because there are fish everywhere that like to eat them.
H. anomala has been introduced all over Europe for a while, including all over Germany, and I have never heard about any adverse effects of this species on the native fauna.
I know German hobbyists that actually keep this species and breed them. Apparently they do fine under normal, tropical aquarium conditions. These guys would make a very interesting addition to the hobby, as they swim around constantly like fish and eat particles from the water column.
If I knew the exact location of this non-native population of H. anomala in lake ontario I would try to get up there to collect some. Badlfash is even closer to the lake (although not much), so maybe he can try.
H. anomala has been introduced all over Europe for a while, including all over Germany, and I have never heard about any adverse effects of this species on the native fauna.
I know German hobbyists that actually keep this species and breed them. Apparently they do fine under normal, tropical aquarium conditions. These guys would make a very interesting addition to the hobby, as they swim around constantly like fish and eat particles from the water column.
If I knew the exact location of this non-native population of H. anomala in lake ontario I would try to get up there to collect some. Badlfash is even closer to the lake (although not much), so maybe he can try.
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michiganmale248
- Larva
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- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:52 pm
- Location: Lake Orion, MI
They just reported it in Lake Michigan.
Hooray for more invasive species to ruin our Great Lakes. Lets just hope it doesn't become another zebra mussels. :/ They did alot more than make our water sparkiling and exterminate native shellfishes. No one can predict what invasives can do. Backin the day, many non-native fish, etc. were introduced by science to "fix" problems or added for "sport". Well, as we know things don't always turn out well even when sciencetist say they will with introduced non-native species. Native fish in our great lakes (Colorado river, other lakes/river systems) are in great decline. Lets not even mention the disaters in Florida with invasives. The fish present in Lake Michigan are greatly differnt than fish that would have been there when DeLaSalle came...I remember the alewife episode a while back. The Indiana Dunes beach would be covered with dead alewives, it was horrid. So they put in some salomon in the Lake. Now many smaller fish are declining, like smelt. Sometimes nature cannot be prediceted. Some non-natives take off, some will not. The worry about this, is if they multiply too rapidly it will starve out large animals by eating all the plankton, etc.
Ugh, I cant help it, here comes the rant.
so never dump unwanted animals into the lake and don't empty your balast in the lake either. This is the reason snakeheads are banned in Illinios, because pretty uneducated people buy a fish that is "cool" realizes it is too big and or thinks it is doing a nice thing and "setting it free"... I will tell you one thing about the water-pet industry, at where i work there are plenty of example of amazonian, african and asian fish, and one can clearly see how huge some will get. One that stuck me today was the Bala Shark, sold as pets. Oh they may look small in the store but they get freakin huge, definately not for the 10 gallon people buy. Im sorry, things like this really stir my pot, irresponsible people, ignorance, and environmental degradation... On a shrimp note, I saw some Amano shrimp at work today. Very big. Havn't found out yet if they have attempted to breed them.
Scientists are worried about the impact it will have on plankton and whatnot.
This is not an issue of keeping non-native pets, its about reponsibility of people who care(or lack of) for animals. Not all animals can survive in areas they are released in. I dont think many tropicals can survive long in our great lakes, we used to have cold winters
. What is the problem is the irresponsibility of aquarium keeping industry that only looks at profit rather than creature being kept correctly. They would sell a baby giant gourami and a handful of exotic shrimps to someone with a 10 gallon tank and not care, because it is money and ignorance because of lackof training/knowledge.
Hooray for more invasive species to ruin our Great Lakes. Lets just hope it doesn't become another zebra mussels. :/ They did alot more than make our water sparkiling and exterminate native shellfishes. No one can predict what invasives can do. Backin the day, many non-native fish, etc. were introduced by science to "fix" problems or added for "sport". Well, as we know things don't always turn out well even when sciencetist say they will with introduced non-native species. Native fish in our great lakes (Colorado river, other lakes/river systems) are in great decline. Lets not even mention the disaters in Florida with invasives. The fish present in Lake Michigan are greatly differnt than fish that would have been there when DeLaSalle came...I remember the alewife episode a while back. The Indiana Dunes beach would be covered with dead alewives, it was horrid. So they put in some salomon in the Lake. Now many smaller fish are declining, like smelt. Sometimes nature cannot be prediceted. Some non-natives take off, some will not. The worry about this, is if they multiply too rapidly it will starve out large animals by eating all the plankton, etc.
Ugh, I cant help it, here comes the rant.
so never dump unwanted animals into the lake and don't empty your balast in the lake either. This is the reason snakeheads are banned in Illinios, because pretty uneducated people buy a fish that is "cool" realizes it is too big and or thinks it is doing a nice thing and "setting it free"... I will tell you one thing about the water-pet industry, at where i work there are plenty of example of amazonian, african and asian fish, and one can clearly see how huge some will get. One that stuck me today was the Bala Shark, sold as pets. Oh they may look small in the store but they get freakin huge, definately not for the 10 gallon people buy. Im sorry, things like this really stir my pot, irresponsible people, ignorance, and environmental degradation... On a shrimp note, I saw some Amano shrimp at work today. Very big. Havn't found out yet if they have attempted to breed them.
Scientists are worried about the impact it will have on plankton and whatnot.
This is not an issue of keeping non-native pets, its about reponsibility of people who care(or lack of) for animals. Not all animals can survive in areas they are released in. I dont think many tropicals can survive long in our great lakes, we used to have cold winters
. What is the problem is the irresponsibility of aquarium keeping industry that only looks at profit rather than creature being kept correctly. They would sell a baby giant gourami and a handful of exotic shrimps to someone with a 10 gallon tank and not care, because it is money and ignorance because of lackof training/knowledge.What interested me is that the other posts on this forum make it seem that shrimp are so fragile when it comes to water quality. How can these dangerous shrimp survive after being pumped out of a ship's bilge into Lake Ontairo (and Michigan) in winter? Even though these shrimp are not as attractive as others discussed on this site, they seem to be ideal for newbees like me: They are active and can survive harsh environments. What other shrimp can thrive in such cold extremes?
If you didnt already know, the tip of lake Michigan, in teh past was a vast serries of wetlands and Lakes. Some of the remaining Lakes are Lake Calumet and Wolf Lake. Yes, they are even on wikipedia, but here is the point, the tip of Lake Michigan is/was heavily industrialized, concerning of ports and mills, etc. Over in Michigan City, Indiana, you can see a Nucluear Cooling tower from the Indiana Dunes State Park. As we all know, Reactors leave the water nice and warm. Also, Lake Michicagan (by Chicago at least) has not frozen over yet. Many great lakes do not freeze as much as they used to.
Mysis shrimp are pretty small, that is why scientists worry about their impact on plankton. I know in the tributaries of Lake Michigan, at least on the Illinios side, there are reports of Palaemonentes shrimp, but I belive that is not located in the Graet Lakes water shed, but rather in the rivers that feed the Mississsippi.
Red Mytid shrimp are from the Black sea. You may think, "how can something from the Black sea survive in Cold old Great lakes. Well, many invasives are from Black Sea boats, such as the ZEBRA MUSSEL and gobies to name two.
I just think it is a bit disturning that some of you would rather care about it becoming a pet you can catch out of the great lakes than invasive problems. Infact, go, catch them all and make them your pet. I do not want to find out in the future, if their numbers take off, if they can cause any damage or not.
There is a big conservation of the great lakes area where I work at, so any new specie introduced alarms me. If you knew the propoganda and facts, you may understand too.
Mysis shrimp are pretty small, that is why scientists worry about their impact on plankton. I know in the tributaries of Lake Michigan, at least on the Illinios side, there are reports of Palaemonentes shrimp, but I belive that is not located in the Graet Lakes water shed, but rather in the rivers that feed the Mississsippi.
Red Mytid shrimp are from the Black sea. You may think, "how can something from the Black sea survive in Cold old Great lakes. Well, many invasives are from Black Sea boats, such as the ZEBRA MUSSEL and gobies to name two.
I just think it is a bit disturning that some of you would rather care about it becoming a pet you can catch out of the great lakes than invasive problems. Infact, go, catch them all and make them your pet. I do not want to find out in the future, if their numbers take off, if they can cause any damage or not.
There is a big conservation of the great lakes area where I work at, so any new specie introduced alarms me. If you knew the propoganda and facts, you may understand too.
Hi Annako, thanks for the reality check. After reading some of the links on hemimysis I see they really are a problem having the potential for a dramatic effect on zooplankton which, in turn can affect other species. The warmer water from the nuke plants explains how they survive the cold.
Since the Shrimp varieties link on the forum doesn't list any Mysids, I'm guessing that these are not typically kept as pet shrimp. I'm actually not sure if they are true(?) shrimp since I see them referred to as "shrimp-like crustaceans" I am inclined to go for the "usual shrimp with legs walking about" as Mustafa noted.
Since the Shrimp varieties link on the forum doesn't list any Mysids, I'm guessing that these are not typically kept as pet shrimp. I'm actually not sure if they are true(?) shrimp since I see them referred to as "shrimp-like crustaceans" I am inclined to go for the "usual shrimp with legs walking about" as Mustafa noted.
Annako, although you are right about not introducing exotics in native habitats, you are way overreacting here. This is no zebra mussel. This is an animal that is almost at the very bottom of the food chain. Almost everything in the lake will try to eat these shrimp. It has no shell like the zebra mussel, is not known to reproduce explosively *AND* it has been introduced all over Europe and I am not aware of a *single* report that this species has caused any problems for any native species or habitat in Europe. Same applies to the atyid shrimp A. desmaresti, that has expanded its range into central Europe from the Mediterranean (due to rivers being connected by canals for ships). No shrimp I have ever heard of has caused any trouble anywhere. The most they can do is replace another shrimp species (as happened in China with N. denticulata sinensis replacing or deminishing the numbers of other Neocaridina species in a lake or possibly several lakes) but that's about it. So, the *only* realistic problem that these guys could cause is compete with the native Mysis relicta population (another mysid shrimp, just like H. anomala). This is not even mentioned in the linked report. That shows you how much people really care about invertebrates. Mysis relicta itself is an invasive species in other parts of North America, such as lake Tahoe (if I remember correctly) and again no problems have been reported due to the introduction of M. relicta. Again, I don't agree with introductions of exotic animals, but just making a point here about how things are getting blown out of proportion.
The report linked above does not even *say* that it's a problem, but only *speculates* that it *might* be a problem *if* they compete with fish fry for plankton. That's a *huge* if. There is absolutely no evidence from *anywhere* that they actually compete with fish fry. There is tons of evidence that fish, and even fish fry, are much more competitive(and hence much more widespread if you noticed) than any invertebrate competing for the same food source. Also, if anything, H. anomala young *add* to the zooplankton and even the H. anomala themselves can be considered zooplankton, although a little on the larger side.
Ranger even goes so far as to keep refering to these shrimp as "dangerous shrimp." This is what I call blowing things out of proportion or crying wolf when they see a cat. Sorry about being to blunt but there is absolutely no reason to refer to these shrimp as "dangerous." See above for the explanation.
So, let's all calm down and not accuse people of just thinking of these guys as pets and not caring about environmental effects. I, for one, care about the environment (otherwise I'd be trying to sell all of you guys wild-caught shrimp and not care about the loss of wild-populations due to overanxious exporters). It's just that I like to analyze things first before I even think about reacting.
The report linked above does not even *say* that it's a problem, but only *speculates* that it *might* be a problem *if* they compete with fish fry for plankton. That's a *huge* if. There is absolutely no evidence from *anywhere* that they actually compete with fish fry. There is tons of evidence that fish, and even fish fry, are much more competitive(and hence much more widespread if you noticed) than any invertebrate competing for the same food source. Also, if anything, H. anomala young *add* to the zooplankton and even the H. anomala themselves can be considered zooplankton, although a little on the larger side.
Ranger even goes so far as to keep refering to these shrimp as "dangerous shrimp." This is what I call blowing things out of proportion or crying wolf when they see a cat. Sorry about being to blunt but there is absolutely no reason to refer to these shrimp as "dangerous." See above for the explanation.
So, let's all calm down and not accuse people of just thinking of these guys as pets and not caring about environmental effects. I, for one, care about the environment (otherwise I'd be trying to sell all of you guys wild-caught shrimp and not care about the loss of wild-populations due to overanxious exporters). It's just that I like to analyze things first before I even think about reacting.
Last edited by Mustafa on Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.