The lure of the wild shrimp...resist!!

[Mustafa]

I knew I had to post this sooner or later, so might as well do it now. The illegal collection and sale of Supershrimp has been a decades long problem. We all know the infamous tiny glass spheres that have been around for a few decades now. Unpublished genetic analysis on shrimp from those little torture chambers has proven that these shrimp came from protected habitats on the big Island where *any* collecting, even with a license, was and still is prohibited. Unscrupulous people wanting to make a quick buck still illegally collect and sell these animals, not only to the United States, but also to places like Japan (where they are being further tortured and killed in tiny containers). Certain pet shops in Honolulu and elsewhere in the state of Hawaii sell these shrimp as "feeders" for Seahorses and fish; they seem to get their shrimp from very murky sources, too. Legal? Illegal? Nobody knows.

I have contacted Fish and Wildlife in Hawaii multiple times to alert them to the fact that these illegal activities are going on. I have even directly pointed out websites and individuals engaging in such activity. I have received no replies. Obviously, the laws aren't being enforced...a well known fact even among scientists who know the situation well. That means that, in addition to over 90 percent of the anchialine pools (the shrimps' habitats) already having disappeared forever, the last remaining shrimp are being collected and sold *all over the world* for cheap...why? Because they can, and nobody cares. Fact is that Opae ula are endemic to Hawaii (they occur NOWHERE else on the planet), their habitats are almost all gone, and they are being collected probably in the millions every year. Yes, they are not listed as an endangered or threatened species. Obviously, this is another case where the government is missing the boat on the opportunity to ensure the survival of a remarkable species.

Of course these collections from the wild, legal (i.e. with a permit) or not, would not be happening if there weren't demand for these shrimp. The dilemma I am in is that my website is probably the single largest source of information about these shrimp...and the most visible one on the internet. So, in a way, I am directly creating the demand. My intention has *always* been that this shrimp eventually gets established in the general shrimp/aquarium hobby, so that only captive animals are sold to new hobbyists. When I decided to keep and breed these animals back in 2004/2005 there were no captive-bred animals. So I got my animals from the only seemingly legal source with the intention to eventually make the shrimp available to other hobbyists. So, instead of getting hundreds of animals, I started with 35. After some initial setbacks (with shrimp numbers dwindling to as low as 21) I figured out a method to consistently breed this species. Fast forward to now...and 35 shrimp have become over 70,000...all captive-bred. I could have just found a cheap source (i.e. collector..possibly illegal) in Hawaii, made a deal with him/her, and just offered wild-shrimp to buyers all over the world. I didn't...because I really care about the species. In fact, I care about every species of animal so that I have *never* sold wild-caught animals on my website (i.e. everything I sell is captive-bred). So instead, I took a few years to build up the numbers.

I see people, even here in my forum, buying hundreds of shrimp (or dozens) clearly from people that collected the shrimp in the wild. I can see the lure of the cheaper prices, but live animals are not some kid of commodity. Isn't the point of keeping these shrimp mastering their care so that, hopefully, you can breed them? Why start (and make mistakes) with a few dozen or a few hundred of these remarkable animals? What's the point? Wouldn't it make more sense to start with a 10 or 20 captive-bred animals and propagate them? You'll eventually end up with a few hundred anyway...it just takes time. Plus, you can be proud that YOU bred almost all of those shrimp walking around in your tank! Why create the demand for wild-caught shrimp that is responsible for the collection of possibly millions of these animals from the last remaining habitats? Shouldn't we be responsible pet owners?

In any case, some people may accuse me of "pretending" to care because I am the only commercial source for captive-bred Supershrimp on the entire planet, so by telling everyone to not buy wild-caught animals, I am just trying to profit from the demand for captive-bred animals. That is, of course, nonsense. Yes, I don't give these shrimp away for free, and yes, I try to profit from breeding them, but that's what a commercial breeder does...he breeds and sells animals. I would not mind *at all* if there was a large hobby breeder community selling or exchanging offspring of Supershrimp with each other and new hobbyists. After all, that's exactly what I am trying to do. It does not matter if you get your captive-bred animals from me or from a private breeder who breeds these guys in his living room or garage in a small ten gallon tank. And I know for a fact that some people here have gotten animals from hobby breeder. As long as no wild-caught animals are in circulation, I'm happy. I won't have to wonder how much I am responsible for the demand for wild-caught animals by having created this site.

What's the moral of the story? Don't buy wild-caught shrimp! Don't get lured by the much lower prices...if you really care about the species, think about how you are contributing to its very disappearance from the wild. The more popular this species becomes (and it will...this is just the beginning) the more serious the threat will become. Again, you don't need a few hundred shrimp in your tank at any cost (especially not when you're a beginner..which almost everyone is)...and if you can't afford $5 per shrimp (or even less) for captive-bred shrimp, then maybe you should not keep this species at all. After all it's NOT the right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness *and* SUPERSHRIMP" for a reason. Yes, we are a free country and everyone can do what they want (given the legal and ethical limits of course), but we should also be a *responsible* country, and most of the time being responsible and "i'll do what I want because I live in a free country" are incompatible. After all, you can do what you want as long as it does not affect anyone else (and I would include "anything else"...you know, respect life...but that's just me). Well, it sure affects me...I'd like to see this species and its habitat around for a long time to come so I, and others, can enjoy, and, possibly, visit them. Just think about it...

[Harry]

Mustafa's point is well made. I, too, have bought shrimp from other sources. I have no way of knowing if they were captive-bred or wild-caught. But the lower price leads me to believe they may be wild-caught. I find these shrimp charming and highly decorative when placed in an artfully designed tank. I hate to think they are being exploited, especially by hobbyists like me. Unfortunately, as Mustafa states, the laws are not enforced. Hopefully, concerned individuals will spring up in an effort to protect these shrimp as has been done with other animal species. Their extinction would truly be a loss.

[ShrimpGuy]

I've seen a few people on auction sites that are in the USA that claim to be breeding and selling these captive bred shrimp. We have to assume they are telling the truth, right? How do we know? They could have been purchased here and bred. After all, that's MY plan. I, of course, never plan to ever get as big as Mustafa's 70K, but will be done on a much smaller scale, as I do with my 6 other breeds. I certainly hope my other source is telling the truth.

[LeShrimp]

I bought mine for 99 cents each hopefully they weren't wild caught :L

[Mustafa]

Almost all people who claim to be "breeding" these shrimp are simply lying. Especially anyone sending these shrimp out from the state of Hawaii *for sure* is selling wild-caught shrimp...usually caught illegally, no matter what they claim. Ask them to send you a time stamped picture of larvae in their tank...in a breeding setup there are almost always larvae floating around...you won't get that picture. Even most people in the continental US that try to sell these shrimp online have wild-caught shrimp. Since people read the information on my website, where I have been saying for years that people should not buy wild caught shrimp and why, sellers of wild-caught shrimp tend to just claim that their shrimp are captive bred.

It's possible there are more (if there are, they probably just sell locally...once in a while), but I know of only one guy in the US who actually sells captive bred animals.

LeShrimp...if your shrimp were sent out from Hawaii, they are *for sure* wild-caught...especially at that price.

[LeShrimp]

Almost all people who claim to be "breeding" these shrimp are simply lying. Especially anyone sending these shrimp out from the state of Hawaii *for sure* is selling wild-caught shrimp...usually caught illegally, no matter what they claim. Ask them to send you a time stamped picture of larvae in their tank...in a breeding setup there are almost always larvae floating around...you won't get that picture. Even most people in the continental US that try to sell these shrimp online have wild-caught shrimp. Since people read the information on my website, where I have been saying for years that people should not buy wild caught shrimp and why, sellers of wild-caught shrimp tend to just claim that their shrimp are captive bred.

It's possible there are more (if there are, they probably just sell locally...once in a while), but I know of only one guy in the US who actually sells captive bred animals.

LeShrimp...if your shrimp were sent out from Hawaii, they are *for sure* wild-caught...especially at that price.

Yes, unfortunately they where sent from Hawaii.

[jpccusa]

...Wouldn't it make more sense to start with a 10 or 20 captive-bred animals and propagate them? You'll eventually end up with a few hundred anyway...it just takes time. Plus, you can be proud that YOU bred almost all of those shrimp walking around in your tank! Why create the demand for wild-caught shrimp that is responsible for the collection of possibly millions of these animals from the last remaining habitats? Shouldn't we be responsible pet owners?

Almost all people who claim to be "breeding" these shrimp are simply lying.

Aren't these statements contradicting each other? It baffles me that these shrimp can be so easily kept and yet, you are the only source for captive bred individuals? Or by "almost all people who claim..." you meant the other shrimp professionals (not hobbyists)? I truly thought Opae Ulas were a no brainer to breed and captive bred ones would be available from multiple sources. I was wrong!

Also, isn't this statement contradicting itself:

...these shrimp came from protected habitats on the big Island where *any* collecting, even with a license, was and still is prohibited.

If they have licenses, why is it illegal? Or a better question would be "what are the licenses for?"

I have contacted Fish and Wildlife in Hawaii multiple times to alert them to the fact that these illegal activities are going on. I have even directly pointed out websites and individuals engaging in such activity. I have received no replies. Obviously, the laws aren't being enforced...a well known fact even among scientists who know the situation well.

Have you tried contacting a politician in HI? Maybe the scientists could get the media involved? This is a very serious threat and we should not accept no for an answer (or lack thereof).

* Sorry for the blunt questions, but I have been reading lots about Opae Ula and the amount of contradicting information can be frustrating.

[LeShrimp]

After doing some more research on the website I purchased my Opae Ula from I can say for sure they are from the wild. Nobody purchase them from here [Admin: deleted link] I am truly disgusted and upset that I did not read on the front page "We farm our Opae Ula in the wild in private ponds in East Hawaii." I did not realize this until Mustafa's post.

[Mustafa]

After doing some more research on the website I purchased my Opae Ula from I can say for sure they are from the wild. Nobody purchase them from here [Admin: deleted link] I am truly disgusted and upset that I did not read on the front page "We farm our Opae Ula in the wild in private ponds in East Hawaii." I did not realize this until Mustafa's post.

As I said, anyone sending out from Hawaii with claims that they "farming" or "breeding" these animals just digs a hole (or uses already existing pools on private land) and then waits for unassuming H. rubra to migrate there from other places all over the Island due to the lack of predators in that hole. Then they just catch them and send them out. There is absolutely NO farming involved.

I deleted the link you posted as we don't want to do advertising for outfits like that. The situation is so clear that individual outfits don't need to be pointed out. As the title says..."the lure of the wild shrimp" due to lower prices is just too hard to resist for a lot of people.

[KenCotigirl]

LeShrimp I am not the moderator but I believe the rules do not allow referencing other sites for good or bad. You could give your info in a pm. With that said many Hawaii vendors say they aquaculture but they are stretching the truth. In 2008 I purchased Opae from a Hawaii vendor who showed on their website above ground pools used for culturing Iive rock, Opae, seahorses, etc. The implication was they were selling tank raised not wild. Soon after I purchased the Opae the web site was silent on sustainable aquaculture and they began selling Opae in the closed spheres. Noble experiment gone bad. Lets go with that. I know there are similar stories. There is only one vendor in Hawaii that I know of who sells Opae using permits. He sells kits and not individual Opae. He talks about permits and states he has them to collect and sell Opae, lava and sand. While it appears he sells wild Opae he is following State rules and at his prices they would last several lifetimes. As Mustafa said In this post if buying from a vendor ask for several pictures of the breeding tank. Look for shrimp of various sizes, larvae and berried shrimp. It may be inconvenient for the breeder to show pictures but they will realize you are serious about tank raised.

I type so slowly Mustafa already replied. But what I said is still accurate.

[Mustafa]

Aren't these statements contradicting each other? It baffles me that these shrimp can be so easily kept and yet, you are the only source for captive bred individuals? Or by "almost all people who claim..." you meant the other shrimp professionals (not hobbyists)? I truly thought Opae Ulas were a no brainer to breed and captive bred ones would be available from multiple sources. I was wrong!

--Yes, they are contradictory. I'm out there to screw people into believing that the shrimp are "Supershrimp" and they will live without water changes, barely any food, and even breed for you, but in reality they will just die, never breed, and be entirely too difficult to keep before they all die. Joking aside, there is absolutely no contradiction there. If you follow my instructions, these guys do not need much attention at all. It's really a no brainer *if* the instructions are followed. Therein lies the difficulty, though. Most people cannot wrap their minds around how an animal can be kept so minimalistically. So, they mess up more often than not. Thenthere is the breeding part...even if the adult shrimp are doing relatively fine, if you, again, don't follow the instructions here, your shrimp may either not breed, or the larvae that hatch will not survive. NO shrimp is easy to keep compared to fish. The instructions are easy and a no-brainer, following them is the hard part. The shrimp are still sensitive creatures. They have adapted to certain extremes in anture (such as low oxygen, heat, cold, barely any food etc.), but those extremes don't include things like high ammonia levels, which is something that does not even occur in nature (but is one of the main problems in captivity). Even species like the red cherry shrimp are MUCH more difficult to keep than most fish out there. Some people, whose water supply is extraordinarily perfect, or who use RO water anyway, may disagree, but that does not change the fact that most people have trouble keeping and breeding shrimp.

People in Hawaii have been trying for years to "mass culture" this species...without success. I'm the first, and so far only one, that has been successful. When people in Hawaii fail, they just dig a hole in the ground, wait for shrimp to appear, and call it "farming" or "breeding." Even if they knew what they were doing, this species it not the most reproductive species out there. Whereas other species have dozens of eggs (or even hundreds or thousands) per female, this species only has anywhere between 8 to about 20 (sometimes slightly more). On average you'll probably only see 10-15 eggs on a female. Plus, there are only a few females in a tank that breed at the same time. Out of thousands, you could have only 5 or 10 berried females. So...it just seems easier to dig a hole and wait for shrimp to appear.... That's why I am the only *commercial* source for these shrimp. I'm not sure why that is so hard to believe.

As for non-commercial breeders...I am sure that there are people out there who have bred this shrimp in their home setups. In fact I HOPE they did. That's the whole point after all. Cotigirl, a forum member, is breeding them. He may sell some to other hobbyists...and that's an entirely desirable situation. The fact is that these shrimp have not been in circulation all that widely in the past, so there just aren't all that many people out there keeping them, and even fewer breeding them...and EVEN fewer people are willing and able to ship them (shipping properly is an entirely different topic...it's not that easy).

Also, isn't this statement contradicting itself:

...these shrimp came from protected habitats on the big Island where *any* collecting, even with a license, was and still is prohibited.

If they have licenses, why is it illegal? Or a better question would be "what are the licenses for?"

--Why do you see contradictions everywhere? As far as I understand the rules there, there are habitats that are protected so no "fishing" whatsoever is allowed. There are other habitats that apparently aren't protected, so licensed collectors can collect there. This is not a unique situation... You can't just walk into a national park and start shooting animals, either.

Have you tried contacting a politician in HI? Maybe the scientists could get the media involved? This is a very serious threat and we should not accept no for an answer (or lack thereof).

--I have not, but that may be a good idea. Having said that, politicians are probably more interested in representing their own constituents than dealing with requests from someone in California. Someone in Hawaii contacting politicians (or the media) there would probably be a better idea. It would be great to do a documentary about anchialine pools, though, and run it on a national TV channel. That would definitely raise awareness.

Sorry for the blunt questions, but I have been reading lots about Opae Ula and the amount of contradicting information can be frustrating.

--That's ok. Now you know that the contradictions aren't coming from my end. As for other information you may have read, let's just say that most information out there..especially found on sites selling either the shrimp or whole setups is not the most reliable. Yes, I sell the shrimp, too, obviously, but I am also answering questions in the forum, so it's a little harder for me to post crap information as I would have to explain myself publicly. Plus, I can't just dig a hole in the ground and wait for shrimp to appear, so I can freely talk about the actual situation in Hawaii, whereas others have a vested interest in keeping such things quiet.

[jpccusa]

I wish the forum had a "thank you" button.

[Mustafa]

I wish the forum had a "thank you" button.

Hmm...that's a good idea actually. I'll see if there is an extension ("mod") for that functionality.

[Jackal148]

Great discussion! One observation 21 individuals to 70K that is a lot of inbreeding! Wouldn't our little friends be better off genetically if we added to our tanks a few new individuals, from other individuals who have actually bred and raised shrimp from other sources?

[Mustafa]

Great discussion! One observation 21 individuals to 70K that is a lot of inbreeding! Wouldn't our little friends be better off genetically if we added to our tanks a few new individuals, from other individuals who have actually bred and raised shrimp from other sources?

Absolutely not. There is absolutely *no* evidence that inbreeding affects atyid shrimp in any known adverse ways. *All* red cherry shrimp are inbred, all crystal red shrimp are inbred, all blue tiger shrimp, organge shrimp, yellow shrimp etc..etc. They *all* came from just a *single* mutated animal that someone discovered. I probably have the oldest red cherry shrimp colony in the world (10 years old) and after a gazillion generations, there has not been a *single* malformed animal. For a defective gene to make it into the future through inbreeding (and spread) it, by definition, cannot cripple the animal to such a degree that it cannot move around sufficiently to gather food. Since shrimp are not like dogs and cats, and have to rely partially on picking food from various surfaces, malformations would give individuals a competitive disadvantage that would make them less likely to reproduce to begin with. Again, having said that...I have not observed a *single* malformed shrimp in my life that came out of the egg like that (as opposed to injuries later in life maybe...but even that is rare, and usually fatal).

The case of Halocaridina rubra is the same. I've had my current colony since 2004...and not a *single* malfomed animal. Not a single diseased one, either. Scott Santos from Auburn University reported to me that he has not discovered a single pathogen/disease on these animals in all these years of collecting and studying them (and asked me if I ever did...."no"). Then he told me that there seems to be *genetic* resistance/immunity to at least certain pathogens, which may be the reason why these animals never get sick.

In any case...you speak like there are tons of people breeding these shrimp so they can "exchange" offspring. There aren't...I wish there were. Right now pretty much all the shrimp commercially sold, besides mine, are from the wild. And since the shrimp won't be any "better off" (see above...what's better than *completely healthy, active, no malformations?"), I don't see any reason to exploit the wild even further, and justify the immense poaching that's already going on.