Petshrimp.com Discussion Forum

Ok, I'm a total begginer with inverts; but I have plenty of years with fresh water planted tanks... I seen some cherry shrimp and decided it was time for a change. So I stumbled on a reference to this site and had a chance to do a little lurking...

I am trying to determine if my tank parameters are good for these guys - PH around 7.5 in the tank I am targeting them for... Water is not particularly hard or soft. Heavily planted tank...with eco-complete. And Ummm Hordes of endlers. Not a whole lot of algae...virtually none.

I read a few threads that make me think this will be a fine setup and as long as I mix in a little flake or pellet food they won't starve. (I feed 95% live or frozen food) But I'd like to get some feel good confirmation before I drop some $$$ on these little guys.

One thing I don't really see mentioned is hardness. Just curious if soft water will have a negative impact....

Do they do anything to snails? Not that I would mind this...enjoy it acutally (Small Rams and Trumpet snails)

The other thought I have is throwing some in my fry tanks...angels, kribs apistos... Any thoughs on that? (No not with these fish at anything bigger then around a 1/4")

Thanks
Pete

BTW - Mustafa - love the site.

PhaidOut wrote: I am trying to determine if my tank parameters are good for these guys - PH around 7.5 in the tank I am targeting them for...

This should be fine for cherries. Mustafa has reported that his do quite well in slightly basic water.

Water is not particularly hard or soft.

As long as you avoid the extremes, water hardness is not an issue.

Heavily planted tank...with eco-complete.

What kind of plants? There is some anecdotal evidence that Crypts and Anubius may release chemicals poisonous to shrimp.

And Ummm Hordes of endlers.

Not a problem for adults. Young shrimp may be in trouble.

I read a few threads that make me think this will be a fine setup and as long as I mix in a little flake or pellet food they won't starve.

Shrimp do quite well on flake food. If you are nervous, you can supplement this with boiled vegetable. I hear they like yams. Or, you can go Mustafa's route and culture BGA for them.

One thing I don't really see mentioned is hardness.

That's because no one really knows for sure. So far, it seems to not be important.

Do they do anything to snails? Not that I would mind this...enjoy it acutally (Small Rams and Trumpet snails)

Cherries? No. A nice Long-Arm, now that's another story. (MTS can seal their shell, so they are pretty safe with any shrimp.)

The other thought I have is throwing some in my fry tanks...angels, kribs apistos... Any thoughs on that? (No not with these fish at anything bigger then around a 1/4")

Adult shrimp with the fry should be fine. An adult cichlid will make quick work of any shrimp.

Well I have one of each of three kinds of crypt in the tank - Very small, small and medium as of now. Those can always be moved. There is a ton of Java moss and I put in some lava rock recently (hopefully sprout some little critters and algae soon) - so I am not really worried about juvies. I think there is enough cover that many will survive - if they are not I can try something else. There is also temple plant, wysteria (sp?), needle leaf ludwiga and a small crispus. I have a large number of pebbles piled around - lots of little holes. I also have a large piece of wood mostly covered by the java moss, but with many holes/caves.

Now I am curious about the crypt thing though...

I read about a few of the things you mentioned in the varietes page and some posts, but I missed any references about the hardness and crypts. I know Mustafa has posted a fair amount of info under the varietes, but maybe a sticky in the forums about general guidelines for the care of each species wouldn't be a bad idea to add...

I have cherry shrimp in an almost identical setup (although my water is medium-hard). I do have cherries in with only male endlers and some pygmy cories, though. They did fine, and I did have at least 20 baby cherries survive. I think the main problem I had was a fairly high nitrate level, which wasn't too good for the shrimp. The Java moss definitely helped give the babies cover. That particular tank had no crypts or anubias in it. I have another tank with both crypts and anubias in it, with cherries, and they seem to be thriving.

I do add crushed coral to the filter in the endler tank, to keep the snails healthy (I feed them to my puffers). I find that large populations of snails tend to deplete calcium from the water somewhat.

What? Some are poisonus to shrimps? I had no idea, now this worries me. I gotten bitten by the shrimp bug and i have more shrimps than i do fish. I also have a lot of plants, a lot of anubius and crypts, i hope the ones i have are not poisonus. Which ones are?
ANUBIUS
Barteri v. "Barteri"
Anubias x. "Frazeri"
Anubias barteri v. "Nana"
Anubias barteri v. "Coffeefolia"
Anubias sp. "Lanceolata"
Anubius v. (smaller than Nana, fergot whats it called, the mini-minatures ones.)
CRYPTOCORYNE
Balansae ( Cryptocoryne crispatula v. "Balansae Green")
Cryptocoryne becketti
Cryptocoryne lutea
Cryptocoryne petchii
Wendtii-Red (Cryptocoryne wendtii)
Cryptocoryne willisii
Cryptocoryne ciliata

Please tell me I'm safe and that none of these are poisonus to shrimps (and mean it)

Bradimus wrote:What kind of plants? There is some anecdotal evidence that Crypts and Anubius may release chemicals poisonous to shrimp.

Oxalate (I hope I translated it all right). But it doesn't get into the water unless the plant breaks or is "injured" in any other way.

Jackie wrote:
Oxalate (I hope I translated it all right). But it doesn't get into the water unless the plant breaks or is "injured" in any other way.

--Yes, oxalate has been reported as leeching out of those plants. Can't verify it myself since I have not tested the water for it. And yes, the plants become toxic to shrimp when they are cut or broken or start "melting" away (as in your case Brad!).

Take care,
Mustafa

Guys you are not talking about anubas nana...right! I have just cut some in my shrimpt tank only.

-Brian

bgssamson wrote:Guys you are not talking about anubas nana...right! I have just cut some in my shrimpt tank only.

-Brian

Let us know if any shrimp died. That would confirm the observations from Europe.

Mustafa

So far there's no death in my tank (its been day 2) since trim the leaves & parted it into 2. Should I move the shrimps out or the plants? I have the plants (anubias nana & java fern) in the driftwood so it is easy to move than cathching all my shrimps.

-Brian

Do your shrimp show any kind of different behavior? Are they still picking around for food or are they just sitting there? If you see any signs of poisoning (i.e. they sit around and do nothing and move very slowly) you should take out the culprit plants and do a large water change.

Mustafa

i have been separating my nana, trimming leaves with spot algae.... on top of my shrimp tank, and rescaping straight inside the tank without knowing the risk.... so far the shrimps are still surviving and happy....
guess i was lucky

They are still picking around for food & are active. Guess I am lucky too! but as you said Mustafa i'll watch for any signs of different behavior.

thanks guys for all your help!!

-Brian

As I said, there are reports from Germany that indicate that these plants are toxic. However, it does not mean that they actually are. More observations and experience will either confirm or deny these reports from Germany. Maybe certain Anubias or Cryptocoryne species are toxic when torn or cut or maybe it's something else (e.g. certain insecticides that these plants sometimes are treated with).

So...nothing is set in stone.

Mustafa

Very interesting!

I only read about this "problem" with crypts and anubias after I planted my 10g cherry shrimp tank mostly with crypts, and one anubias. It was a new tank, and I had several crypt leaves melt in the tank (as they often do when newly transplanted). The anubias was freshly cut when I put it in the tank. There are 9 crypts and an anubias.

None of my shrimp have shown any signs of distress, all have grown at an amazing rate over the last month, and two are now carrying eggs (all were juveniles when I put them in the tank). Other than my ongoing hydra problem, the tank is doing great!

The community tanks I have amanos in also have a crypt or two and a couple of anubias each, and I have had no losses of amanos in 9 months.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible, just that IME, it hasn't been a problem. Perhaps certain water parameters make the chemical more toxic, or perhaps it's something to do with the way the plants are raised in other countries. I know most of my plants were in the tanks before the shrimp.