tank problem!

Monkanater · Post by **Monkanater** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:19 pm

ok i have a new tank no plants some goldfish (to speed up the biological filter) its been going about 2 weeks now and ive been adding the bactera starter to also speed things up. but not much is happing. i tested the ammonia and nitrite and the ammonias at a 1.00 and the nitrite is a 5.00.this is a ten gallon tank by the way. but this is takeing a lot longer then my dads 60 gallon tank? it took about 5 days before it was already to start takeing things because the ammonia and nitrite drop to zero in no time.but mine is taking longer then i thought it would care to enlighten me about this? i dont want to risk shrimp until is perfect.

Bradimus · Post by **Bradimus** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:01 pm

It sounds like you are right on schedule.

You can try speeding up the process by taking a cup of the gravel from the 60gal and adding it to the 10gal. Raising the temperature in the tank to the mid 80s (F) will speed the growth of biological filter, but will probably kill the goldfish. This really helps with a fishless cycle, especially if you provide plenty of airation.

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:18 pm

I am surprised that your goldfish are not dead at nitrite levels of 5. Don't be surprised if they die soon.

If you have an already established tank with some kind of filter, squeeze the filter material into your 10 gallon tank until the water gets cloudy. That should speed up the process immensely. Otherwise, you just have to wait and keep testing. Cycling times of 6 weeks plus are not uncommon, but I have managed to cycle tanks in 3-5 days with the "filter squeeze" method. All my cycles are fishless cycles by the way, where I add ammonia to the tank every day myself.

Mustafa

deliverme314 · Post by **deliverme314** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:19 am

Several times now with success every time I use water from a long time established tank when setting up new tanks and have avoided teh cycle all together. I did this most recently in my 90 gallon that had sensitive fish such as elephant nose and rams added on the first day. It has been running for 4 months with great success. Granted it is also planted which helps immensley. All my tanks are and that is probobly in no small way responsible for my zero cycle time.

Piscesgirl · Post by **Piscesgirl** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:19 pm

In this day and age, there is no reason to cycle with fish any longer -- the ease of ammonia or even a cocktail shrimp to decompose and produce ammonia. Putting a fish through a cycle is pure torture, in my humble opinion.

Deliverme is correct in that many planted tanks, especially those with CO2 and high light, never go through a traditional 'cycle.' The low light tanks done Diana Walstad (The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) style also most often do not go through a cycle if done correctly.

Monkanater · Post by **Monkanater** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:55 pm

i did the "filter squeeze" and most of which came out of the filter my goldfish are eating now most of it. Ill see what happens in the morning.....

51Cornell · Post by **51Cornell** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:32 pm

When your dad does a water change on his 60g, use the water in your tank. You also didn't say what else beside goldfish you had in your tank--the bacteria need stuff to grow on (a bare tank will take a very long time to cycle if ever)--gravel, plants, rocks, stumps, etc.

There's also this stuff called Bio-Spira (by Marineland perhaps--not sure now who puts it out, one of the big name fish supply manufacturers) that is supposed to season a tank in 24 hours. Never tried it and I don't know if shrimp tolerate it well.

Piscesgirl · Post by **Piscesgirl** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:06 am

BioSpira is indeed by Marineland, and should be safe for shrimp and the only cycling product that I am a firm believer of. However, demand was far greater than supply and it has not been available for quite a few months. Anything still available I would not trust, and any Biospira kept on shelves I would never trust. Buy on refrigerated (not frozen!) Biospira and keep it cool until ready to use. Last word is that new Biospira should be available in September (next month - yay!). Marine biospira has been available, however.

Jackie · Post by **Jackie** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:15 pm

Piscesgirl wrote:Deliverme is correct in that many planted tanks, especially those with CO2 and high light, never go through a traditional 'cycle.' The low light tanks done Diana Walstad (The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) style also most often do not go through a cycle if done correctly.

My friend who specializes in planted tanks says this is true only when the water in the tank has a rather low pH (lower than 7).

Correct me if I'm wrong - I myself don't have a planted tank, except the small one with shrimps, and when I let the shrimps in it was already established. So I'm not an expert on the matter

Piscesgirl · Post by **Piscesgirl** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:45 pm

Ammonia is less toxic when the ph is acidic; however that is not why planted tanks would not experience a cycle. For a better answer to your question, I would direct you to Diana Walstad's The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.

By planted tanks, I would mean fully planted with fast-growing stem plants, not a few stems.

That is not to say I would not recommend cycling a tank first, because, I would.

Bradimus · Post by **Bradimus** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:51 pm

Piscesgirl wrote:Ammonia is less toxic when the ph is acidic;

Technical note: In acidic water, ammonia is converted to the less toxic ammonium. Actual ammonia is always toxic.

Monkanater · Post by **Monkanater** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:10 am

ok i did the filter squeeze and i took some gravel and water from my dads tank and put it in my little one, its about 2 days sence then and the ammonia is complately gone and the nitraite is still rather high,off course i could lower that with some plants. and my tank is rather bare a few big rock gravel and air stone and a filter.but i went to a goldfish web site and it says that goldfish uproot plants and eat them, so i dont want to risk loseing a plant cuse my bugit is little over 39$ dollers right now plus i need a light for the plants. it by a window but not close enogh to give "good" light ill need to get a light before i plant some plants.and goldfish are a hardy fish thats why they have not died yet.so u all know these are the .12$ feeder gold fish.i still se no alge most likely from the low light levels.

Jackie · Post by **Jackie** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:51 am

Bradimus wrote:Technical note: In acidic water, ammonia is converted to the less toxic ammonium. Actual ammonia is always toxic.

My "plant" friend claims that ammonium is easily absorbed by plants, while ammonia is not. That's why a planted tank with acidic water does not need to cycle. If the pH is higher than 7 even a lot of plants won't be able to save your fish from getting poisoned, unless the tank is already established.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:26 pm

Hi,

I'm new but I do know fish and plants.

Normaly it is recomended to have between 2 to 3 watts of light for each galon of water.

BUT....

There are plants that dont need as mutch and are gold fish friendly.

Java fern - attaches to rocks and wood

Anubis - attaches to rocks and wood (that have alots of cracks in them)

Water sprite - floats

And depending on your filter...

Java moss - attaches to rocks and wood (kinda attaches to rocks and wood but is more or less is a fuzzy green blob)

Hope this helps,

TKD