Hawaiian Red Shrimp update (eggs hatched!!!)

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Hawaiian Red Shrimp update (eggs hatched!!!)

Post by Mustafa »

Hello all...

The eggs that my first ovigerous female was carrying are finally in the process of hatching. There are some surprising and very fascinating things that I observed. Some of these things have never been reported before.

First, the eggs do not hatch pretty much all at once as with other shrimp. They hatch over several days.

Second, the larvae that hatch out of the eggs (always just a few at a time) are carried around by the mother under her abdominal area along with the unhatched eggs for a few days (1-3 days it seems). This is extremely unusual for a shrimp species, although this is the norm for crayfish, which carry all of their fully developed young around for a while.

Third, the larvae are already at a very advanced stage when they are free swimming. These are one of the most advanced free-swimming larvae that I am aware of in any shrimp. They are huge compared to the body size of the parents. The shrimp with the most advanced free swimming larvae that I was aware of up to this point was the American Freshwater Glass Shrimp (Palaemonetes paludosus), whose larvae hatch as *huge* head-down larvae and turn into post-larvae after only 3 larval stages. The larvae seem much larger in relation to their parents' size than even P. paludosus larvae.

Judging from the fact that it takes P. paludosus larvae only 7-8 days to develop into post-larvae (miniature shrimp), I would deduct that the Halocaridina rubra larvae also only need only a few days to develop into post-larvae (see below for more on that).

Fourth, the larvae have a huge body, which still looks like an egg. I am assuming that this body serves as a food-reserve until the larvae develop into post-larvae and start foraging for algae and other micro-food items. I am also assuming that the larvae do not eat at all and that the food reserve is all they have to develop into post-larvae. If this is true or not will have to be verified by further observation. It is not unusual for certain shrimp species to produce larvae that do not require any food until becoming benthic post-larvae. This is a major difference to Palaemonetes paludosus, whose larvae require food. Hence, it would seem logical to assume that the H. rubra larvae are at a higher stage of development than the P. paludosus larvae and probably need less time to develop into post-larvae than P. paludosus larvae who already have a very short larval time (about 1 week).

I will try to make some photos of the larvae if they get close enough to the front of their tank and will post them under the species description. :) I will also write an article about these shrimp and their reproduction once the first post-larvae are running around and one whole reproductive cycle is completed, which should be soon. :)

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Post by Mustafa »

Ok...here is another short report on Halocaridina breeding with pictures:

[dead link]

So far I can confirm all the observations on that page except the egg-development duration, which is reported on that page as 35 days, but which only took 30 days in my case. However, egg-development is temperature dependant and I might just have had a higher temperature in my tank.

This site also confirms my assumption that the larvae do not need food until they develop into post-larvae. Note, however, that they erroneously call mysid stage larvae (horizontally swimming larvae instead of head-down) "post-larvae." Real post-larvae are miniature shrimp and fully benthic.

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Post by chlorophyll »

This is great!
Can you tell us what temperature your water is at?
I suspect these shrimp won't breed without warmer water if the larvae don't feed. Larvae may need temperatures that promote fast development so their fatty vacuoles don't get depleted before they reach PL.
That FukuBonsai page reports wild populations living and breeding in the lower mid 30's C (low to mid 90's F), although that is not true of all populations.

I wouldn't be surprised if the hatchlings are immediately mysis stage larvae. Perhaps those still attached to the mother are zoea. I believe zoea larvae have sessile (not yet stalked) eyes along with no true telson or uropods (the fanned tail parts of a shrimp). Instead the tail is more like whisker-like projections. Of course most of these differences can't usually be seen without magnification.

My understanding (and observations) was that mysis stages continue to be more or less tail up. Once dominantly headfirst and horizontal aligned swimming is observed, I've taken them to have moulted into PL body form. I think it may just take a few hours (but no further necessary moult) before they actually settle to a more dominantly benthic lifestyle.
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Post by Mustafa »

The temperature right now is 82 degrees Fahrenheit. The temp usually stays around 80 degrees and never goes above 82-84. Hence, temperatures above 90 degrees do not seem to be necessary for reproduction. I have 3 more females with eggs running around, so whole colony is definitely in reproduction mode. Let's see how long that lasts.

You seem to have confused the different larval stages, though. Mysis/mysid stage is called that way because the larvae resemble Mysis shrimp at that point, i.e. they swim more horizontally. Post-Larvae are just what the name says, it's the stage after the last larval stage at which point the shrimp is benthic. Anything that is still swimming around instead of having legs and crawling is a larva. PL *always* have legs and crawl around just like the parents, i.e. they are miniature versions of the parents. I hope this clears it up.

As to the H. rubra larvae hatching at Mysis stage....that's what I thought at first, too. My larvae are all swimming horizontally after all. But then I remembered (duh!) that their light is at the side of the tank instead of on top. The larvae are photosensitive so they always swim towards the light...in this case they are swimming towards the light tail first, which is the equivalent of a head-down position if the light were on top of the tank. Hence, they are most likely not at mysis stage yet. I'll keep you guys up to date on further observations, though. :)

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Post by chlorophyll »

I'm going to have to add a heater to my breeding tank. They are at about 72 F now; too cool for breeding, I feel.

I suppose there's confusion, or larval stages behave a little differently for different species. This mysis stage description may well be mistaken, but represents, generally, what I've observed in Penaeus vannamei and M. rosenbergii. While this describes the planktonic nature of PL's I have observed especially in P. vannamei. M. rosenbergii PL settle much faster; all PL's found were already dominantly benthic. However just previous to that stage, the late mysis stage continued to have a backward swimming motion with tail at least slightly elevated, even with the presence of pleopods. I wasn't aware that mysis stage may also commonly have a normal forward swimming motion.

To me it would make sense that early PL would remain planktonic in many species, as they need time to settle from the ocean to the estuaries. M. rosenbergii develops completely in brackish estuarine water so it makes sense that their PL stage settles much more immediately. Considering H. rubra's habitat, it would also make sense that their PL's settle much more immediately. However it may still be possible their early PL's, for some reason, remain somewhat planktonic for awhile. Perhaps it's similar to the "lap swimming" some describe in adult opae ula.
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Post by Mustafa »

The confusion about the larval stages stems from the fact that you are using two completely different species groups to compare their larval stages. Penaeid shrimp (Penaeus and related shrimp) and Caridean shrimp (also called "true shrimp"...which are almost all the shrimp we keep as pets including Caridina, Neocaridina, Macrobrachium, Palaemonetes, Atya, Halocaridina...etc.) are two completely different branches under the Decapod family tree, although at first sight they might look very similar.

Penaeid shrimp as different as you can get from Caridean shrimp. They are generally considered more "primitive." They do not even carry their eggs under their pleopods but release their eggs directly into the water after at which point they fall to the ocean floor. There...they usually hatch within 24 hours.

These shrimp produce hundreds of thousdands to millions of eggs. Their larvae are much more primitive at hatching and their larval stages are very different from the larval stages of Caridean. Hence...their "postlarvae" are not completely benthic and have to go through several postlarval stages to become juvenile shrimp.

With Caridean shrimp the postlarvae become benthic immediately. Their behavior and mode of swimming is equivalent to that of adult shrimp. So, what you observed as as "not-settled" postlarvae in M. rosenbergii was just another larval stage before postlarvae stage. Postlarvae are just miniature versions of the adults. Here is a website with some nice depictions of the larval stages of Macrobrachium rosenbergii:

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/aqua/broc/aqu ... nfo17.html

Pay special attention to the picture of the postlarva and what is says right underneath. ;)

Halocaridina belong to the Caridean shrimp (true shrimp) and are, more specifically, Atyid shrimp. Comparing Halocaridina to Panaeid shrimp is like comparing a sheep to a Kangaroo. ;) Although both are mammals, they have different developmental cycles.

So, anything you read about any Penaeid shrimp usually does not apply at all to all the shrimp species we keep in the hobby.

I hope this clarifies things a bit further. :)

Take care,
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Post by chlorophyll »

Yes, that makes sense about the Penaeids. I noticed their zoea stage does seem to look somewhat different from the freshwater shrimp too.

But about the swimming direction, am I incorrect in making the differentiation that mysis basically swim with a backward motion, and PL's normally swim head first (when they do swim)? Because this was something that was also evident with M. rosenbergii larva.

ps. Yeah something definitely went wrong with my last post. I also couldn't make any more posts until real time caught up with the botched time stamp. Don't know if I did anything to cause that.
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Post by Graeme »

Superb!! :D
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Post by chlorophyll »

Week after hatching ... still swimming around? Any PL sightings yet? :-)

I just noticed Stentor cilliates have bloomed in my opae ula tank. Noticed them as hundreds (probably thousands) of little specks swimming near the surface. Cool things under the microscope. Hopefully these are not harmful to these shrimp and can be fed upon. If I have the variety that grows over 1-2 mm, I could be worried about them trying to engulf larvae! But these all look to be less than 0.3 mm. Maybe a result of raising the water temperature. Tank's just teeming with life now... no berries for me yet though.
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Post by Mustafa »

Unfortunately all my larvae and 1/3 of my adult Hawaiian Red shrimp died of poisoning along with some other shrimp in other tanks. I suspect that my wife sprayed some insects nearby with RAID and it got into the tanks. I quick water change saved my remaining shrimp. Before this event I saw 1-2 juveniles from my last batch of larvae. This is interesting since I had not even seen any larvae last time my females were carrying eggs.
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Post by amber2461 »

I am sorry to hear about your loss of shrimps Mustafa. :(
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Post by chlorophyll »

Wow, how sad and frustrating... :(
I'm like borderline (ok, I may be over the line) contaminant-fearing OCD. Meticulous hand rinsing, never using soap in the sink I do aquarium stuff in, trying to even avoid breathing on my aquarium water. Ahh... I can't stand it when people are loose with the airborne chemicals, cleaning agents, medications, colognes, dirty mops, and other such things. I could use to ease up though, lest I end up like "the aviator" :shock:

Better luck with your next batches.
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Post by Mustafa »

It's actually a good thing to be meticulous when it comes to such sensitive animals as shrimp. I think you can start breathing into your tanks freely though unless you are exhaling toxic gases :wink: :-D

As for the Hawaiian Reds....I will keep trying. :)
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Post by Erirku »

Hey Mustafa, why is it that you need to add distilled water in the opae ula tank? Will it affect the salinity? is it way safer than tap water? And do you clean or change water in that tank regularly or very little? Thanks Eric.
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Post by Mustafa »

Where did you read that you *need* to add distilled water? You don't need to. I always add dechlorinated tap water to top off and the shrimp do great.
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