Setting up CRS tank

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:26 am

I have been keeping Cherry and Ghost shrimp for a while and decided to take the plunge and try the Crystal Red in a 20 gallon tank. I've been reading shrimp forums for a month to try and figure out what I want to do.

1. I bought an RO+DI unit - my pH is normally 8.4 so I figured I wouldn't try and lower it chemically and just go with this. I have seen several posts where they use the DI part but I have also read a post from Mustafa saying to unhook it. What is the opinion on this? RO+DI and add Equilibrium or R/O Right? Or just use RO. My KH is at 10.

2. Substrate - I don't want to pay the premium for Aquasoil so I am looking at either Eco-complete or Flourite. I have read some that are disappointed in Flourite due to cloudiness issues so I am leaning towards Eco-complete.

3. Filter - I know the most common around here is sponge but noise is my biggest concern. I would also like to put this tank close to flush to the wall due to a crazy cat so a HOB is not high on my list either. I just read someone's post that their Eheim 2213 was too powerful for their 15 gallon tank. The Zoo med 501 is cheaper but some people don't like it. I would also need to find or make a prefilter for any of them.

4. Lighting - I was considering a 55 watt PC fixture but with that amount of light I am going to need to fertilize. I should probably stick with a 36 watt.

5. Food - I have access to oak leaves, and have the HBH algae wafers. I also will get the HBH Crab and Lobster Bites.

6. Heater - I will get a small 100w heater and keep the tank at 73 degrees.

7. Plants - I have plenty of plants, I will try and put java moss, baby tears, and anubias in there to start. My cherry shrimp like to hang out in my dwarf sag and in the roots of the anubias.

Your feedback is appreciated, I will definately post pictures when I get this set up.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:56 am

It looks like you have done a lot of work and research which is great. Did you take a look at the parameters on the shrimp varieties section for crystal red shrimp? I just wanted to let you know that you can use filters that are normally made for larger tanks because when you add a prefilter it can cut the flow down a great deal, especially with sponges. Here is a quote from another rescent thread, it may or may not be relevant here so I appologize if it is not.

Mustafa wrote:

You worry way too much. Shrimp (and fish) can take a range of ph values as their natural habitats have ph fluctuations, too (even daily). That's why I give ranges of ph values in my species descriptions instead of numbers. In your case, red cherries can live and breed in water that can be soft to hard and slightly acidic to alkaline. In my experience they are more prolific in alkaline water. So, once you get your ph value into the alkaline range, you are done. It really does not matter much what that value is of if water changes will change that value slightly. Just keep checking the ph once in a while and make sure it's in the alkaline range. Done. If you worry too much, then you tend to do things that are not always beneficial to your animals, like changing water parameters daily to achieve the "perfect" values.

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:00 am

I have the mixed black/brown/red fluorite in one of my shrimp tanks. It is a great plant substrate and I do not regret purchasing it at all.

The only *problem* with it is that you need to rinse it like crazy before adding it to your tank. It is not that difficult to do, but is easiest done with a 5 gallon bucket and a garden hose.

Place about 20% of the bag in the bucket and start rinsing and pouring off the cloudy water until it is clean. It will still probably cloud the water, but if you rinsed it thoroughly, it will not be a long term issue. A few sessions with a gravel vac and the fluorite will be clean.

My only issue with it is that I now prefer a black substrate that brings out the colors of my shirmp and allows me to see baby shrimplets easier. It is almost impossible to see a baby cherry shrimp on fluorite.

edit: Forgot to say that it sounds like you have really thought this out and I'm sure you'll create a great home for your new CRS!

One more thing. . . it is possible to mount a HOB filter on the side of the tank with a little bit of creativity and maybe a dremel tool depending on the type of hood/cover you use.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:44 pm

Neonshrimp wrote:I just wanted to let you know that you can use filters that are normally made for larger tanks because when you add a prefilter it can cut the flow down a great deal, especially with sponges.

Thanks for that Neonshrimp....i'm going to buy a sponge filter and what you said has just helped me out big time.

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:25 pm

Any suggestions for a prefilter? The Filter Max III looks great but with shipping its like $15. Will a normal Hydor sponge work - is there a bottom on this sponge or a hole? I would like to get everything at Big Al's and they don't have much of a selection.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:01 pm

argblarg

The set up I have used before, and what I am going to use when I set up my tank for Filter Feeders is.

A hot magnum 350, The pre-filter is a Hydro Sponge V.
I cut the top of the Sponge Tube so it is just above the water line.
I use a funnel Shape adapter, on the Hot Magnum Inlet tube for a good tight fit.

I make a Spray tube out of extension tubes, so not to create to much current in the tank.

With this set up, I have to clean the Sponge once a month.

I hop this helps
John

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:19 am

All of my equipment arrived last night, I am ready to put this tank together.

Am I going to have a problem using the RO+DI unit, I cannot disconnect the DI part of this one very easily so I will have to add back in (I bought Equilibrium will this be enough?).

I will fill the tank and see what my pH ends up at, and will try the muriatic acid method to lower it if necessary. I guess I didn't think about the meter so I will be ordering the that phep5 meter today. Is the liquid test kit enough to get started on this process?

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:42 am

Tank filled up with water yesterday. I got pure ammonia to fishless cycle plus a seeded HOB to help. I also picked up a huge jug of muriatic acid which I will only need a couple drops I'm sure. Phep4 is in the mail, should be here by Friday.

If I need to use it, will muriatic acid kill all the bacteria in the tank so I will have to re-cycle? I was thinking of unhooking the HOB for a few hours afterwards just in case. Also would it hurt plants? Probably...

Current water params:
Temp 80 degrees (To help cycle)
pH 7.6
KH 1 (2nd drop turned the color on the API kit, I have a Salifert kit I haven't used yet)
GH 3 (Used 1/2 tsp of Equilibrium)
Ammonia 5.0
NitrIte 0
NitrAte 0

Final tank specs:
20 gal high
Eheim 2213 w/ Hydro V prefilter
36w fixture
Eco Complete substrate

I'll post some pics soon too.

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:39 am

Ok using the more complicated Salifert KH test it came out that I have KH of 2.9. Not sure how that happened since I am using RO+DI water

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:15 pm

My pHep4 arrived today. Tank water is reading 7.6 pH, straight from the RO unit it is 7.4 pH.

KH - 3
GH - 6
Ammonia - .5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

Anyone chime in on how to get my pH get down?

Post by **Mustafa** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:30 pm

argblarg wrote:
Anyone chime in on how to get my pH get down?

Have you tried a search? Always try a search first before asking questions to avoid repeating old topics over and over again. In this case I'll give you a little tip...search for "acid."

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:16 pm

Yeah thanks, I have read every single thread posted about pH and acid, HCl, muriatic, muratic, hydrochloric, etc. Not one says how to actually do it other than add a few drops and measure again. No calculations or formulas as to how much to add to lower to a certain amount, this should exist somewhere shouldn't it?

I already bought the muriatic acid and will be trying it by adding small amounts. I also asked does it impact/kill the bacteria in the tank or the plants, none of the posts I see address this at all. How long after adding the drops can I take a reading again?

I know you and the forum regulars are probably sick of the same old questions but I have been reading about this for quite some time and still would like clarification.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:35 pm

I take a reading after an hour, but it depends on the flow and mixing. Some sort of reaction occurs and the pH will rebound. If you are setting up a new tank, no worries about the bacteria. Just squeeze an established dirty filter into the tank and you'll have plenty of bacteria in no time. I've used this method many times and the filter trick make it ready in 24 hours or less. Do wait for the pH to be stable before adding critters as thepH swings do some damage.

Post by **Mustafa** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:50 pm

argblarg wrote:Yeah thanks, I have read every single thread posted about pH and acid, HCl, muriatic, muratic, hydrochloric, etc. Not one says how to actually do it other than add a few drops and measure again.

That's how you do it.

No calculations or formulas as to how much to add to lower to a certain amount, this should exist somewhere shouldn't it?

It doesn't. That's because everyone's water is different and you have adjust your dose accordingly.

I also asked does it impact/kill the bacteria in the tank or the plants, none of the posts I see address this at all.

They do address it. If it's not mentioned that bacteria were getting killed, then they probably weren't. right? If something goes well, you don't have to point it out as in "Oh yeah...all bacteria are still doing fine."

How long after adding the drops can I take a reading again?

Give it a few hours.

I know you and the forum regulars are probably sick of the same old questions but I have been reading about this for quite some time and still would like clarification.

We're not sick of questions, we (I, at least) want you to do the "homework" first and use some common sense before asking questions. That's all. There are over 14,000 posts here after all and there is a lot of information in there.

argblarg · Post by **argblarg** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:33 am

I will continue to log my pH lowering attempts here in this thread.

Begin: 7.8
Added 4 drops HCl
After 1 hour: 7.6
Next morning: 7.8

I will add 6 drops next time. I am only waiting an hour to read because I have 2 filters going so my water circulation is very good.

Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5

Still adding 10 drops ammonia per day to continue cycle. Presence of 5 nitrates means maybe I am done.