Cyanobacteria growth

Lady Friesian · Post by **Lady Friesian** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:25 pm

Yeah, I've read that the antibiotics aren't a long term solution (though I've been tempted...)

I've never fed that much, and have reduced feeding even more lately as the shrimp seem to be doing quite fine with just the occasional spinach (badflash - mine really like it, but wouldn't eat the dandalions: that's shrimp for you

)

About water changes: I do about 50% weekly and vacuum the parts of gravel w/o plants. I permanently stopped fertilizing a while ago (months)

I'm going to have ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels tested.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:34 pm

Once the gravel gets saturated with goop, it takes a long time for it to break down.

Jackie · Post by **Jackie** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:52 am

Remove all the cyanobacteria you can by hand. Do large partial water changes for a couple of days, cleaning the gravel each time. In the meantime don't feed anthing in the tank. Try to get some Terminalia catappa leaves - they work really great.

Lady Friesian · Post by **Lady Friesian** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:03 am

The water test said 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. What!?

I read one scientific article that said that cyanobacteria can fix its own nitrogen from atmospheric nitrogen (unlike plants and true algae), and so can thrive and take over in low-nitrogen tanks. If that's the case, ugh.

I also added a pair of nerite snails, having read that they'll eat cyanobacteria. (The "adding more critters" technique of algae control isn't a good idea if too much nutrients are there, but I thought in this case it would be okay)

Jackie - what are Terminalia catappa leaves? From a land plant, I assume? What exactly do they do? I have been removing a ton of algae by hand repeatedly.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:54 am

They need phosphates and can't make that. Have you checked the phosphate level?

Jackie · Post by **Jackie** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:41 pm

Lady Friesian wrote:Jackie - what are Terminalia catappa leaves? From a land plant, I assume? What exactly do they do?

Terminalia catappa is called Tropical Almond, Indian Almond, Sea Almond. Has strong antibacterial properties, lowers the pH and gives water a nice, yellow-brownish color. I used it once to get rid of a fungi in my aquarium and accidentally discovered it helps getting rid of cyanobacteria. Plus - does not kill bacteria in the filter. Shrimp like to eat it, crays too

However, if your tank water has a high level of waste, Terminalia catappa won't help for long.

bulrush · Post by **bulrush** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:53 am

I also have a problem with BGA. I covered the tank for 4 days and it died off (fed fish small amounts every other day only) but it came back 2 weeks later.

Another person on another board said it is because there is not enough water movement in my tank. My tank does have cabomba in it and a HOB filter, and a sponge filter in same corner as the HOB filter, but I suspect there are enough plants in there to really cut down on the water movement. Try adding a bubble in the area that grows the most BGA and see if the water movement cuts down on the BGA growth.

Post by **Mustafa** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:03 am

Jackie wrote:
However, if your tank water has a high level of waste, Terminalia catappa won't help for long.

THIS is the key to getting rid of BGA, not water movement. I know the "water movement" advice has been circulating for a while on the internet, but all it does is dislodge the cyanobacteria at best. The root problem, high organic load, will not be resolved. The only thing I have found that works best is really the good old fashioned "remove by hand", perform regular water changes and remove any solid organics (dissolved ones are removed by water changes) from the water method. Everything else is just attempting to treat the symptoms but not the cause.

Lady Friesian · Post by **Lady Friesian** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:51 am

Infernal stuff; I keep removing it by hand, and doing the water changes, and have been for months!

Sorry, but can you explain what you mean by "high organic load?" I don't think my tank is overstocked, and it has lots of fast-growing plants.

Next time I'm nearby the pet store, I'll have the water tested for phosphates (I'm way out in the country).

bulrush - the algae grows pretty much everywhere, including the filter overflow. Thanks for the advice, anyway.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:23 am

Lady Friesian wrote: Do you think a filter would help, maybe after the light treatment? I don't want this stuff to come back!

Is the 5g unfiltered?

IndianaSam · Post by **IndianaSam** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:46 am

Lady Friesian wrote:The water test said 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. What!?

I read one scientific article that said that cyanobacteria can fix its own nitrogen from atmospheric nitrogen (unlike plants and true algae), and so can thrive and take over in low-nitrogen tanks. If that's the case, ugh.

That's your problem. Do a 4 day blackout (no light, tank covered with towels, NO PEEKING). After 4 days, do a 75% water change to clear out all of the dead BGA. That should get rid of the BGA.

Maybe increase feeding to keep nitrates up or dose KNO3.

It's strange to think of a tank having too little nitrogen. However, BGA thrives in such conditions.

*EDIT* I guess this was already covered on the first page. Sorry guys. *EDIT*

IndianaSam

jimjimson · Post by **jimjimson** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:05 am

The best way to get rid of it is Maracyn. Not Maracyn 2 though, just regular old school Maracyn, then dose your nitrates.

Make sure to do the full 5 day treatment of Maracyn too. Have to be sure that crap is good and dead.

I used to be plaugued with BGA. Horrible stuff.

bulrush · Post by **bulrush** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:29 am

Chemicals in garlic are also said to have antibacterial properties. I do not have access to Indian almond. Would adding a 1/4 clove of crushed garlic to a 10g tank help? Will it hurt my shrimp?

10g Tank has: 1 ADF, 4 cherry shrimp, 3 ghost shrimp. Some MTS. Tank has a sandy bottom.

And yes, my phosphates are a little high, my first test read 5ppm. Is that high? Should I get it to zero to prevent BGA from growing?

Where are the phosphates coming from? Fish flake food?

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:34 am

In my opinion the problem with nitrate dosing and also maracyn is that it, again, just treats the symptoms and not the cause. The cause is really high organic load. In other words, fish/shrimp excrements, dead plant matter, dead algae dying algae including the cynobacteria itself (that's why it needs to be removed from the system), decaying wood etc..etc. Those are solid organics, which need to be removed by hand. The dissolved organics need to be removed by water changes. That's really the best solution. You don't see cyanobacteria in natural waters with fish and shrimp because of this reason....good water quality. Nobody goes and dumps maracyn or nitrates into those waters to keep them free of cyanobacteria. You will notice quite the opposite if you see polluted ponds or rivers. They are full of all kinds of algae and cyanobacteria.

Maracyn, like other antibiotic treatments, will just kill the currently active cyanobacteria but won't solve the problem. As long as the root problem (organic load) is still there, the cyanobacteria will still return. Plus, when the cyanobacteria "dissolve" after adding maracyn, they don't just dissappear. They just add to the organic load of the water...definitely not a good thing for the tank inhabitants.

The same applies to adding nitrate. The root problem is still there, it's just that *maybe* higher nitrate levels somehow disturb the chemical balance inside cynobacteria so they can't grow properly. Again, this does not eliminate the root problem which is a high organic load. Also, it's counterproductive in a shrimp tank, as most shrimp species are very sensitive to nitrates and you should really be trying to keep nitrates as close to zero as possible.

Even if there is no cyanobacteria outbreak, one should always strive to keep the organic load low in a tank by performing frequent water changes removing solid organics. Shrimp and fish will feel best in such a pollution free environment. Yes, we as humans can also live for years in heavily polluted industrial zone, where cars and industrial plants keep spitting out all kinds of gasses into the atmosphere, but sooner or later it will make you sick. Same applies to aquatic animals. They may seem fine for quite a long time, but in the end they will succumb. That's why it's important to ALWAYS fight the root of a problem instead of treating the symptoms.

In most of my tanks nitrates are 0 and I have absolutely no problem with Cyanobacteria. The only time I had cyanobacteria was when I was fertilizing too much (I don't fertilize at all anymore now) and performing too few water changes. The cyano covered everything in the tank. The only thing that *reliably* worked was to remove the cyano by hand and keep performing large water changes. The removal by hand is absolutely necessary as reducing the organic load per se won't immediately get rid of the cyanobacteria that are *already there*. It will only stop the growth and spread of cyanobacteria. Cyanobacteria have the amazing ability to linger around even in an environment that does not provide them the opportunity to grow and spread. Hence, they need to be removed by hand until nothing is left and their environment is so clean that they just can't survive.

I hope this clarifies a few things concerning cyanobacteria in a shrimp tank.