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Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:11 pm

Mustafa
Thank You for the updated article.

Just a question about the leaf litter.
What would be the maximum # of oak leaves you can add to a 10 gal. without effecting the PH of the water ?

I have to agree with the others, about Java Moss.
In my tanks it grows better/faster the Nijas Grass.

John

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:33 pm

How do you prepare the leaf litter to ensure the absence of fungus/molds though?

I do nothing at all. I just put the dry leaves in the aquarium. I only put 1 in at a time. When it becomes a skeleton, I remove it and put in another.

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:09 pm

Maekellen wrote:How do you prepare the leaf litter to ensure the absence of fungus/molds though? I know you said to soak the leaves until they sink on their on before putting them in the tank, but do you boil them first?

No boiling whatsoever. I just soak them so they sink and that's it.

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:26 pm

Newjohn wrote: Just a question about the leaf litter.
What would be the maximum # of oak leaves you can add to a 10 gal. without effecting the PH of the water ?

It all depends on how long the leaves had been lying on the ground before you collected them and how long you soaked them. The longer a leaf has been lying on the ground and been exposed to weather, the fewer tannins will be left in it. The soaking also removes a lot of the tannins. With the oak leaves I collect, the water in the bucket I soak the leaves in does not even discolor all that much even with dozens of oak leaves soaking. With such leaves, you could fill the whole bottom of a tank with a layer of leaves with minimal ph effects, especially if you already have hard water.

I have to agree with the others, about Java Moss.
In my tanks it grows better/faster the Nijas Grass.
John

Well, it depends. Java moss has very few requirements besides water and light. Najas, on the other hand, won't grow if you do not provide it with micronutrients after it has soaked up all the micros from the tank water. So, in that case, the Java moss will grow faster in the same tank. Once you put micronutrients into the water, even just a tiny little, the Najas takes over the tank in no time and even chokes out the java moss.

8x10 · Post by **8x10** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:30 pm

Mustafa wrote:
Newjohn wrote: Just a question about the leaf litter.
What would be the maximum # of oak leaves you can add to a 10 gal. without effecting the PH of the water ?
It all depends on how long the leaves had been lying on the ground before you collected them and how long you soaked them. The longer a leaf has been lying on the ground and been exposed to weather, the fewer tannins will be left in it. The soaking also removes a lot of the tannins. With the oak leaves I collect, the water in the bucket I soak the leaves in does not even discolor all that much even with dozens of oak leaves soaking. With such leaves, you could fill the whole bottom of a tank with a layer of leaves with minimal ph effects, especially if you already have hard water.

I have to agree with the others, about Java Moss.
In my tanks it grows better/faster the Nijas Grass.
John
Well, it depends. Java moss has very few requirements besides water and light. Najas, on the other hand, won't grow if you do not provide it with micronutrients after it has soaked up all the micros from the tank water. So, in that case, the Java moss will grow faster in the same tank. Once you put micronutrients into the water, even just a tiny little, the Najas takes over the tank in no time and even chokes out the java moss.

I'm confused-- Does this mean because my java moss outgrew the naja that my tank doesn't have the right nutrients for shrimp? I did prune it all the time but I removed a lot more after your update. I have left one large clump but opened up the other spaces . I did have more moss than naja when I started so maybe the naja didn't have a chance which is apparently an accidental good thing

My java fern grows well too and sends out new plants all the time. I have no trouble getting plants to grow without ferts in my shrimp or my fish tanks. I do have all sizes of shrimp in the tank but want to see them flourish and be happy shrimp.

frugalfish · Post by **frugalfish** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:23 am

Interesting observation Mustafa. I was recently pondering a similiar idea after cleaning out one of my canister filters on a non-shrimp tank. While cleaning this canister I happened to find one large adult Cherry shrimp that had found it's way into the filter and I promply removed it and placed it in my 'official' Cherry tank. I suppose this shrimp made it's way into the wrong tank by hitch-hiking on some moss that I borrowed from the shrimp tank. So, what does this have to do with this thread? Well this shrimp could not have been in this filter for more than 6-8 weeks and was larger than any of the other Cherry shrimp that I have in my official Cherry tank. Why such rapid and robust growth, especially while contained inside a dark canister filter? Why are my Cherries in a nicely planted, well maintained, fed, and otherwise seemingly proper tank not as beautiful as this shrimp? After reading this thread and the updated article I too am more convinced that these shrimp need and excel on detritus and microorganisms. Perhaps I should just keep my shrimp in canister filters, dump them out every few months and collect all the beautiful shrimp.

I know. silly idea, but still my story is another example of the importance of detritus and microorganisms to healthy shrimp. I plan on changing my tanks to contain more litter for the shrimp and observe the results.

Kenshin · Post by **Kenshin** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:56 am

I totally agree as well with frugalfish and Mustafa. A couple of months ago, I used a sponge wiht large pores to cover the intake of my power filter (Aqua Clear 50) intake of my Green shrimps. However, somehow the tiny baby Green shrimps got sucked into my power filter and was residing at the bottom of the filter box (above it is another sponge which acts as mechanical filtration - 0.5" of empty space between bottom of the filter and mechanical sponge). There were about 7 to 10 of them and they were both growing at a more rapid pace (nice green color too) compare to the ones I have in the tank. Apparently, they must be feeding on the detrius or the micro-organisms because there were no fish food in it. Of course, I did put them back in the tank and replaced the sponge of the intake with a sponge of smaller pores.

Maekellen · Post by **Maekellen** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Mustafa wrote:
Maekellen wrote:How do you prepare the leaf litter to ensure the absence of fungus/molds though? I know you said to soak the leaves until they sink on their on before putting them in the tank, but do you boil them first?
No boiling whatsoever. I just soak them so they sink and that's it.

Thanks.

And, thanks to badflash too.

I've oak trees on my property that are no where near the road and haven't been sprayed for at least 6 years (when I moved in, don' t know about before). I've just been afraid to use the leaves from the ground for fear of introducing a mold/fungus that would harm the tanks.

Post by **Mustafa** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:11 pm

Maekellen wrote: I've just been afraid to use the leaves from the ground for fear of introducing a mold/fungus that would harm the tanks.

Don't worry about it. Whatever microorganism is introduced on the leaves will be eaten by the shrimp anyway. I've never observed any kind of mold, fungus outbreak on my leaves.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:24 pm

Since I do not currently have Leaf Litter in my tanks, the Shrimp will have to settle for the microorganisms that live on the sponge filter.

I use a Hydro V, to get the most surface space for grazing. It is alittle funny looking in a 10 gal.
The Surface of the sponge never seems to get dirty. And the Shrimp are constantly feeding on it.

After the word of leaf litter get around, People will be selling Oak leaves on the Auctions sites.

Thanks
To all of the members
For sharing
There information
To increase the interest
In this growing Hobby

John

Post by **Mustafa** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:24 pm

Newjohn wrote:Since I do not currently have Leaf Litter in my tanks, the Shrimp will have to settle for the microorganisms that live on the sponge filter.

I use a Hydro V, to get the most surface space for grazing. It is alittle funny looking in a 10 gal.
The Surface of the sponge never seems to get dirty. And the Shrimp are constantly feeding on it.

A sponge filter is another great place where shrimp can find microorganisms to graze on. The constant waterflow through the sponge and the large surface area is like a paradise for microorganisms.

After the word of leaf litter get around, People will be selling Oak leaves on the Auctions sites.

I'm surprised that hasn't happened already.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:38 am

Well my Wife let me know.

That there is no dought that I am Crazy.

I just got back from the great outdoors with a paper bag full of OAK leaves.

They will soon begin soaking.
And after a few days of soaking and rinsing , some of them will end up in all of my tanks.

John

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:07 am

Does anyone keep snails in with the oak leaf litter in their shrimp tanks? I've read on a snail site that oak leaves are poisonous to snails and wanted to check with you all before I poison my snail population (who live with my shrimp).

Cheers.

Post by **Mustafa** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:20 am

Oak leaves are not poisonous to snails. I have three different species in my tanks and they are all doing just fine.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:34 am

Cheers for the reply.....i'll be off to the park next week....shame my kids are a bit too old to be roped into helping out.