Hi! I'm new

Pea-brain · Post by **Pea-brain** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:46 am

Hi! I'm new to shrimp keeping. I just thought I'd introduce myself or whatever. I just got a 10 gallon tanks. I have some najas in the tanks. I have a stingray brand submersible water filter (10 gallons) and have a sponge filter (designed for 30 gallons. I wanted as much surface area as possible) coming in the mail. I still seem to have a ton of ammonia in my tank but I used Amquel+ to detoxify it. it's been running a week and a half and everything else seems fine but I'm not recieving my shrimp until 2 weeks from friday so hopefully..... I am planning on recieving 6 redfronted shrimp, 2 white spotted pearl shrimp (machrobrachium mirabelle) and on a different shipment of 10 ghost shrimp and 3 cherry fire shrimp. as soon as I get the digital camera working i'll post a picture of my tank.

Well i just thought that info might be appropriate. It's great to be here. If anyone has any info for my tank I'd love some help.

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:03 am

Hi Pea-Brain, welcome to the forum!

Would love to see some pictures of your tank!

Although, if you have ammonia in your tank, it means its still cycling. Your not going to want to put shrimp in there until the tank is completely cycled which means 0 NitrItes, 0 Ammonia, and very low but still detectable NitrAtes.

Are you aware of how the nitrification cycle works?

-John (AKA: The Puffer Ninja)

Pea-brain · Post by **Pea-brain** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:32 am

yeah i know how the cycling process works. ammonia and other toxins are transformed in cellular respiration into nitrite which other bacteria transform into (almost) hoarmless nitrate. I have no living things in the tank besides najas, 3 harmless snails and some tiny wormy thing I saw squirming between my substrate and glass. I think it might be mosquito larvae which I don't think are a problem. The lack of ammonia eating bacteria may because thats all I have in my tank. would it be a good idea to add a hardy fish to spike my ammonia and start up those **** bacteria? they are taking their time. i've been using a small amount of bacterial additives (biozyme) but it hasn't helped. I'm getting some cycle brand bacterial additive soon if thats better. If I had anything wrong in my equation wrong please tell me. I'd hate to have my shrimp die because i misread something. I'm probably being a little too impatient though.

wendyjo · Post by **wendyjo** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:42 am

Cycle doesn't work, so don't waste your money on it. The only thing I've found that truly works is Bio Spira.

If you are using regular drops test kits for ammonia (nessler type) then the Amquel is going to give you inaccurate test results. It says so right on the bottle - you need to buy special ammonia test kits if using ammonia binding products.

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:48 am

Good to know you've done your homework!

Personally, I don't use fish to cycle a tank. I'm too soft hearted to put a fish through that--it can burn there gills, casuing sometimes permanent damage, as well as the possibility of death.

I've never had luck with any of the "bacterial additives" such as Cycle. I beleive I read somewhere that most likely all that is contained inside these products is dead bacteria, which = Ammonia. I have heard reports of these products even slowing down and hindering the cycle process.

I've heard VERY good things about Bio-Spira, as long as you buy it refrigerated. I personally have no experience with this, I haven't been able to find it in my area.

What are your tanks params? Any readable nitrItes or nitrAtes? its likely that the excess ammonia is from the supposed "bacterial additives". I don't know how your snails are alive, they are usually sensitive, being an invertabrate. Are they Malaysian trumpet snails by any chance? They are extremely hardy, or so i've heard.

The wormy things are likely nematodes. I see them after adding live plants.

I think at this point, test all the levels every day, and wait until that ammonia goes down. How much bacterial additive have you added? I wouldn't add Cycle at this point.

Is there any gravel/media you can get from another tank? Those will have bacteria already growing on them, and will help jump start the process.

Maybe even ask an LFS for a hand full of gravel.

I think i've covered everything. If you have any more Q's feel free to ask, and anyone else can feel free to correct/add anything that I have overlooked.

-John (AKA: The Puffer Ninja)

Pea-brain · Post by **Pea-brain** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:41 am

My ammonia levels have gone down significantly in last 2 days. My current levels are between 1.5-2.5 ppm. they were about 6 ppm 5 days ago as they have been for a while.I recently decided to add 3 shrimp pellets into the water to really spike it. It went really high and now its going down. results are nitrate/nitrites-0 ppm, hardness 30-60 ppm, alkalinity-120-180 ppm, ph 7.5 ish. the bacteria are supposedly dormant until contact w/ ammonia an d other food sources. I have some ph up and down coming on friday w/ the cycle. I could use help with hardness alkalinity because i dont really get what i need to do to increase/decrease them. also i'm using wardley brand shrimp pellets and algae wafers. will these provide a good enough diet or what would you recommend? oh and the snails came with the najas. mustafa said they were pond snails. i was also thinking about adding a local pond mussel (I live in maine) or getting a freshwater clam. my friend has some mussels in his 30 gallon and he has been doin great. he might let me borrow some some gravel in exchange for some najas. i have too much already. he has a fish tank btw.

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:33 pm

I would STRONGLY urge you NOT to use the Cycle at this point. It sounds like your tank is almost done cycling. If your bacterial colony can eat that much ammonia in a short ammount of time, you should be good.

I would just watch it until the Ammonia goes down to zero, and then continue supplying the colony with "food" until the shrimp get to you. After the inital "cycle" if you keep adding the same ammount of ammonia, it wont re-cycle the tank. If your colony can "eat" 4-5 ppm, that should be more then enough to support shrimp. So basically, you need to cycle the tank at the same bio-load that the total shrimp are going to produce.

So if you have been adding 3 shrimp pellets per week (this is just an example), keep doing that until you get your livestock, to prevent die-off of bacteria. Keep carefully monitoring levels too. After you cycle the tank, you ALWAYS want your ammonia to be 0, your nitrites to be 0, and your nitrates to be farely low. (under 5ppm, for shrimp)

Did you ever detect any nitrItes?

Are the nitrAtes gradually rising?

I'm not sure how the naja is going to affect a cycle. The snails should be producing ammonia as well.

About the food--try searching the forums. There are many threads discussing such issues. Always try a search before posting your questions. It wouldn't hurt to read the forum rules too

I hope i've helped, and if anyone sees something I missed feel free to correct me

Good luck with your tank Pea-Brain!

-John (AKA: The Puffer Ninja)

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:10 pm

Don't waste your money on expensive cycling products. You may as well add a couple of fish flakes to the tank everyday.

If you can get hold of some filter sponges from an established filter, your cycling will speed right up. If you don't have another filter you can raid (leaving some sponge in the original filter) you could ask your lfs for some....making sure you get the filter sponges to the filter asap.

It sounds like you're on the right track anyways, just remember to use water conditioner for water changes and never wash your filter media in tap water....best of luck with your new tank and shrimp (when they arrive).

Pea-brain · Post by **Pea-brain** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:14 pm

I have not detected a rise in nitrites. It may be possible that the najas is acting as the nitrate eating bacteria and absorbing nitrates, though I think that could be bad because it doesnt sound particularly stable. Sorry about breaking the rules I added it in haste. I was also wondering if legos may be used as a cheap decoration. They are "child safe" which means they probably dont leech chemicals, and I've read about an experienced octopus breeder suggesting them as toys for octopusses. I also read somewhere that they were safe for aquarium use. does anyone have any experience? any other help from my last post would also be greatly appreciated.

and thanks alot. I'll try to follow your advice.

Edit: I don't trust my lfs. they have bad fish, don't know squat (example: They keep 7 medium sized fish in a 6 gallon tank in front of a constantly playing boombox) besides they dont use sponge filters or substrate.

Shrimp&Snails · Post by **Shrimp&Snails** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:27 pm

I emailed Playmobil and asked about their products being aquarium safe but sadly they decided not to reply. They had a great beach hut I wanted to use in my sand bottomed tank.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:26 pm

Again welcome

I guess the other members have been able to help you. I just want to wish you a great future in the hobby and hope your tank is ready when your shrimp arrive.

Lady Friesian · Post by **Lady Friesian** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:52 am

On the subject of cycling: you can use a few drops of pure ammonia each day to get the tank cycled. This is similar to the fish food method but produces less phosphates and organic waste which can be a problem later.

I don't think this is a good idea if you already have creatures in your tank, but for a new one it beats putting unlucky "cheap" fish in there. Obviously no shrimp until the tank reads no ammonia or nitrite, as others have said.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:09 am

On the subject of cycling: you can use a few drops of pure ammonia each day to get the tank cycled. This is similar to the fish food method but produces less phosphates and organic waste which can be a problem later.

Could you please tell us how long this method of cycling takes. Another member said it takes about 10 days, have you had a different experience?

Thanks.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:55 am

I haven't gone to that kind of trouble in years. When I start up a new tank I just squeeze out the filter of an old tank into it. The next day it is ready to add critters. I've never had any issues, even with very sensitive critters. The "fishless cycle" if fine if you have no access to an old filter, but it takes a long time.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:03 am

Wow, the next day! I will try your technique the next time I cycle a tank.

Thanks.