UPDATE & ?? I'm new and need some advise

wendyjo · Post by **wendyjo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:56 am

I'm not sure I understand what you mean badflash. The Ph of the water I use in that tank is about 6.2-6.4 - I was told I needed to bring it up, which I'm trying to do. I know they don't like it swinging - that's what I'm trying to avoid. That's why I started this thread in the first place.

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:14 am

Just a few clarifications...

badflash wrote:From my experience (limited I admit) if you add soft acidic water to hard basic water you get.....Hard basic water.

Well, it all depends on how much soft, acidic water you add. Either way, the "hardness" (I prefer to use conductivity) of the water will be reduced. The ph might or might not be reduced depending on how acidic the new water was. The ph will be buffered by the *carbonates* and will resist change. So, you might actually end up with soft or medium hard alkaline water. Alkaline does not always indicate hard water. I, for example, have very soft, neutral to alkaline water coming out of the tap, but I make it more alkaline for my Neocaridinas and various other shrimp.

If you water is soft naturally, it tends to be acidic.

Yes, but only if your water is coming directly from the soft, acidic river to your tap.

In all other cases, your city adds something like sodium hydroxide to raise the ph above 7.

If your water is buffered with calcium, when the acid tries to work it just reacts and fizzes out some co2. Nothing much else happens.

Calcium has nothing to do with ph buffering. It's the carbonates and bicarbonates (and a few less important alkaline builders). Calcium only contributes to gh, whereas carbonates contribute to kh. You probably got confused because crushed coral is calcium carbonate and you thought it's the calcium that causes the ph increase. It's the carbonate.

Once I acclimate the bacteria to a certain pH it seems to hold on its own. I guess this is bacterial selective breeding, but it works for me.

Nah...the bacteria have nothing to do with the fact that your ph stabilizes to a certain value after some time of adding acid. The reason your ph goes down a lot in the beginning and keeps coming back is because the initial addition of acid produces a lot of hydrogen ions, which push the ph down right away. The alkalinity builders in your water (carbonates, hydroxide etc.) take some time to counteract and cancel out the ph change (hence they "buffer"). However, ever time you add more acid, the less the alkalinity builders are able to do that. So, every time the ph bounces back to a slightly lower value. The bacteria are not affected by this and have nothing to do with ph or conductivity.

Hope this clarifies things.

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:19 am

wendyjo wrote:Wow - what a terrific explanation! That's good - I should be OK. The cuttle bone and coral did more than I expected them to. For RCS what Ph should I be aiming for? Can it get too high if I add too much of this stuff? Perhaps I should monitor it for a while? I also don't want it to vary too much from my other tank, just in case someone needs to be moved temporarily in an emergency situation. Yesteray I added a bit of the coral to that tank as well, but I haven't checked the Ph today. I just have a betta and an oto in there.

You worry way too much. Shrimp (and fish) can take a range of ph values as their natural habitats have ph fluctuations, too (even daily). That's why I give ranges of ph values in my species descriptions instead of numbers. In your case, red cherries can live and breed in water that can be soft to hard and slightly acidic to alkaline. In my experience they are more prolific in alkaline water. So, once you get your ph value into the alkaline range, you are done. It really does not matter much what that value is or if water changes will change that value slightly. Just keep checking the ph once in a while and make sure it's in the alkaline range. Done. If you worry too much, then you tend to do things that are not always beneficial to your animals, like changing water parameters daily to achieve the "perfect" values.

wendyjo · Post by **wendyjo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:30 am

Yeah, I DO worry too much. Thanks for setting me straight. The less I have to mess with the water the better.

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:23 am

Haha, don't feel bad Wendyjo, I worry a LOT too. I think that worrying will do more harm then good in the end.

Wow Mustafa, great write up!

-John (AKA: The Puffer Ninja)