hi everyone; and, some (almost)-newbie questions

[JohnPaul]

Hi everyone, I've been someone who's been reading the forums a while (a "lurker," haha) but since I haven't ever been a serious shrimp owner, have never really had much reason to post.

However, I think the time has come. The "call of the shrimp" has captured me!

As for a bit about me, I have been in the FW aqarium hobby for a few years now, currently have 29g and 10g planted tanks, plus a temporary 2.5g fry tank. My only experience with shrimp so far has been the occasional ghost shrimp (3 of them currently thriving in the 10g with some guppies, I think a few are still around in my 29g as well) and a nice 3" bamboo shrimp happily filtering the outflow of my HOB on the 29g.

I really want to set up a nice breeding colony of something...likely red cherry shrimp, mostly because it seems to be the only kind of shrimp I can find besides ghosts. (None of my LFS's have anything but ghosts, and looking online, it doesn't seem like it's very easy to find anything but red cherrys around. I like some of the other things on this site, but everything seems out of stock... except for the snowballs, but being as I've never seriously kept these before, starting with shrimps that cost $5.50 a pop seems a bit of a risky proposition!!).

ANYWAY, I'm seriously considering setting up my 10g as a shrimp-only tank, beginning with RCS and seeing where else it might take me. After reading the articles and also doing some forum searches, I find I still have some questions. TIA for any help!

1. Sand vs. Gravel. I read that gravel is "better" because of the biofilm factor, but...how much better? Is it a significant enough difference that I should completely breakdown my 10g (currently with a sand substrate) and do a substrate change to gravel before I make it my "shrimp tank"?

2. Nitrates. Shrimp like low nitrates (5 and below), yet I thought planted tanks did best with moderate levels of nitrates (25-30 ppm) to encourage both plant and algae growth. Can keeping a tank at 5 ppm nitrates really provide enough nutriets for plant and algae growth?

3. Best plants? From the point of view of what they would feel comfortable with, any plants in particular that are good (or not good?) I know they love java moss, I have a bunch of that ready to go. Otherwise, do they prefer broad-leaved plants (anubias, swords, et al.), or tall skinny stuff (crypts, val), or does it not matter? Any need for floating plant cover on the surface?

4. Friends. I realize things like otos and corys are "safe," in that they won't eat the shrimps or their shrimplets. However, I have also read that often the shrimp won't breed if there's anything else in the tank; would the activity of otos or corys be enough to discourage them from breeding? Would something like corys on the bottom compete with them for food in a way that would have a negative impact?

5. Cross-breeding, Part I. Are the genera Neocardinia and Cardinia far enough "apart" that cross-breeding can be definitively ruled out? (Thus, having one species of each genus in the same tank would be "ok," putting aside questions of water parameters for a moment.)

6. Cross-breeding, Part II. I understand putting more than one Neocardinia species (or strains) in the same tank is considered unwise due to the possibility of cross-breeding. My question is, *why* is this looked down upon? Is it merely an aesthetic question (i.e. when it happens, offspring tend to be drab & ugly), or is it a matter of professional/ethical integrity that such cross-breeding is damaging to the hobby? (This is assuming the shrimps are for me and me alone, not to be sold/given away to others.) (As someone who has raised and bred killifish, I know with killies it is very much an ethical issue, where aquarists are very insistent at keeping the native strains pure. Was wondering if it was the same thing with the shrimps.)

7. Lighting. Is it essentially impossible to keep a "high light" shrimp tank? I ask because high light tanks demand fertilizing, and the article here is pretty emphatic that shrimp tanks should not be fertilized. So it seems to me that that would relegate a shrimp tank to being low (or at most, low-to-moderate) lighting. Or am I missing something?

8. My Water. My water out of the tap (after sitting out overnight) is pH 7.1 to 7.2, and quite soft (dKh around 1.5 to 2.2). From reading the profiles, that would seem to be pretty right-on for the Neocardinia species, correct?

Again, thanks for any help. If any of these have been answered and I missed it, I apologize.

[Newjohn]

Hello JohnPaul
Welcome to the Forum.

Opologize ?

It sure looks like the Shrimp has bitten you.
No one that is half hearted.
Would have done that much research.

Yes, The RCS is the easiest to come by. Remember the Hobby is still Young.

These are just my thoughts

I have found that given the right conditions, The Snowball Shrimp are as easy as the Red Cherry Shrimp.

I have both Sand and Gravel substrate. Not being a sceintest, I have not noticed a difference.
With the other members that are, I use there information, to better understand.
Yes, you will get different opions.
Like, Hang on Back filters vs. Sponge vs. Underground Gravel. They all seem to work for different people.
You just need to see, what you are willing to try and afford.

I will not touch the Nitrates.
I am one of those people that do daily water changes.

For plants I have Java Moss, Nubius, Java Fern, Moss Balls, Crypts.
I see shrimp grazing on all of them.

I have Shrimp Only Tanks, So I can not help you there.

Cross Breeding, In my opion.
At the rate of loss of habitate. It sure would be nice to get a captive breeding program for the wild forms, before they are lost forever.
And then start making your own colors.

If you have Hybreds already, by your mistake or others, go for it to see what you can get.

As for water, Mine out of the tape is 7.8 and hard.
I need to use a R/O filter for my soft water Shrimp Variaties.


As I said before.
There are alot of members that use different methods. Most of them work very well. It all depends on what equipment you have or how much money you are willing to spend.


These are just my Thought and experience's
John

[Neonshrimp]

Hi and welcome JohnPaul. I will try to help you with the first question about substrates. I have two tanks with RCS in them one with gravel and another with sand. Both have healthy and breeding shrimp at the moment .

The tank with the gravel has only a thin layer of gravel which does not let food to pollute the tank and allows me to do quick and easy gravel cleaning. The darker color of the gravel also helps to bring out the red of the shrimps in this tank .

My tank with sand seems to make a better scavanging surface for my shrimp as the like to dig up the small particles of sand. The drawback of this is that the sand is hard to clean as it is 1 inch thick and has a film of mum/waste on it after a while. My sand is light colored which seems to show every particle of shrimp waste! This also causes the shrimp in this tank to look more pale and clear than the other tank .

Best wishes with you new tank and please keep us updated

[Shrimp&Snails]

I have found Ottos to be shrimp and shrimplet safe and corys to be shrimp safe but not shrimplet safe.

If you plan on keeping corys with them I would give the shrimplets lots of hiding places/plants.

I prefer using sand personally....it's easier to turkey baster poop off the surface rather than it falling between gravel.

[Mustafa]

1. Sand vs. Gravel.[/b] I read that gravel is "better" because of the biofilm factor, but...how much better? Is it a significant enough difference that I should completely breakdown my 10g (currently with a sand substrate) and do a substrate change to gravel before I make it my "shrimp tank"?

Don't break it down. It's not worth it. Just put some leaf litter in your tank for microorganism development and you'll be fine.

2. Nitrates. Shrimp like low nitrates (5 and below), yet I thought planted tanks did best with moderate levels of nitrates (25-30 ppm) to encourage both plant and algae growth. Can keeping a tank at 5 ppm nitrates really provide enough nutriets for plant and algae growth?

Remember that we are primarily shrimp keepers here and want to maximize the well-being of our shrimp. Shrimp do best with as little nitrate as possible. In their natural habitats there is barely any measurable nitrate. In high nitrate environments they do poorly over time. Algae and micro-organisms grow even in low nitrate environments, so I would not worry about that. You'll have to choose between planted tank and shrimp tank. Shrimp won't do well for long in a high-tech, fertilized planted tank.

3. Best plants? From the point of view of what they would feel comfortable with, any plants in particular that are good (or not good?) I know they love java moss, I have a bunch of that ready to go. Otherwise, do they prefer broad-leaved plants (anubias, swords, et al.), or tall skinny stuff (crypts, val), or does it not matter? Any need for floating plant cover on the surface?

I am finding more and more that no plants in the tank is the best solution for them. If you absolutely want plants, then use very slow growing ones like java moss, java fern etc. But even then, don't overdo it and let the plants take over the tank and outcompete the micro-organisms the shrimp feed on. Again, you might want to perform some searches about this as we just finished a whole thread talking about this issue.

5. Cross-breeding, Part I. Are the genera Neocardinia and Cardinia far enough "apart" that cross-breeding can be definitively ruled out? (Thus, having one species of each genus in the same tank would be "ok," putting aside questions of water parameters for a moment.)

Neocaridina and Caridina cannot cross-breed. Most Caridina cannot cross-breed with each other either, as "Caridina" is encompasses tons of highly unrelated shrimp species that will probably be re-classified in the future. Just check the shrimp varities pages...if it does not say "this shrimp will cross breed with....x" it mostly will not crossbreed with any other shrimp that is currently widely available.

(As someone who has raised and bred killifish, I know with killies it is very much an ethical issue, where aquarists are very insistent at keeping the native strains pure. Was wondering if it was the same thing with the shrimps.)

Yes. Nobody says you should not crossbreed at all. If you are a true breeder and you keep records, then you can try to breed new color varieties by cross-breeding. Most hobbyists don't keep records and they are more likely to distribute their hybrids as true species, which they are not. The shrimp hobby is still so new that we should concentrate on establishing breeding populations of the wild varities first before trying out hands at cross-breeding and contaminating wild populations.

7. Lighting. Is it essentially impossible to keep a "high light" shrimp tank? I ask because high light tanks demand fertilizing, and the article here is pretty emphatic that shrimp tanks should not be fertilized. So it seems to me that that would relegate a shrimp tank to being low (or at most, low-to-moderate) lighting. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. See above for the explanation on what our priority is (shrimp keeping and breeding...not plants). You can have a high light tank with no fertilizer as long as you have either no plants at all, in which case you would have more algae and micro-organism growth to the high light, or undemanding plants such as moss and fern. No fertilizer or CO2 required, just like their natural habitats don't require anything additional under the bright sun.

That should help you along the way for now.