paintworx wrote:OH dear ! I appreciate your help, but now I am still sort of confused. I know I need to be able to actually hold this thing in my hands to know what you are talking about- and also read the instructions! BUT this will help clarify for me- I have very hard water where I live- the ph is 8.2 -- I want to have CRS and bees- SO I need the ph brought down to about 6.5 - 7 --- I will use r/o, and plan to also use muriatic acid. Which calibration solutions would I use? 7 & 10? or 4, 7, & 10- or which? also, I need to buy storage solution? yikes! These bottles look to be about $8-12 each- I may be wrong. I found some for $6.99, but they were made by Milwaukee- will that also work on Hanna?
Get the 7 & 10 for cherries. Storage solution is desirable, but not essential. It just extends the life of the probe. 8.2 is not too high to breed cherries, but you may want to experiment with pre-treatment of the bucket of make-up water with a few drops of muratic acid &let it stand over night. I'd stay far away from anything that says "buffer" on it. My expperience is quite negative using them. Your water company is probably adding sodium hydroxide and this just needs to be neutralized.
When using muratic, use only a few drops at a time well mixed and give it time to mix totally in the aquarium before measuring and adding more.
I use peat to soften the water and drop the pH in tanks that need a lower pH than my water supply can offer. Peat is pretty neat stuff. It softens the water by adsorbing carbonate, removes some impurities like activated carbon, and acidifies the water.
I might as well share one of my "secrets" because I don't think I have heard of anyone else using Jiffy peat pots. They start as a hard disk and swell into a little bag of peat when placed in water. I sit them on top of the sponge in my Aquaclear filters. I think they are a neat little self-contained package that is easier to handle in my fish room than a big bag of gardening peat moss.
These can be found at any gardening shop, and only cost about 10 cents each.
The only *problem* with peat is that it gives the water an amber color, but since I grew up in the swamps of northern Florida, brown water is somewhat romantic to me.
Badflash, it is CRS (crystal reds) I will be keeping..... I know they are a lot more sensitive to water parameters than the cherries. SO does that change your idea of the solutions I need ?
yucca patrol, thanks for your idea on the peat- I have a whole box of jiffy peats! I have heard of putting peat in a canister as media, but when you are referring to the aquaclear, how do you control the swelling of the peat? They GROW! Also, has anyone heard of using coconut fiber as media, or anything useful for shrimp tanks?
I soak them before adding them to my filters. The ones I have swell to the size of a golf ball. I know they make larger ones too, but this is a great size for filters.
They do have a partially open end, so I make sure that side is facing up and above the water level to prevent peat particles from being washed into the tank.
This is the sort of reason why I love Aquaclear filters. Their media baskets can be filled with anything you like, unlike most HOB filters that require specific cartridges and do not have extra space for extra media. I prefer these over canisters because they are so easy to work with since they don't have to be disassembled for maintenance. And, of course, they are cheap!
Thanks for the tip, Yucca. I'm sure people will appreciate it. The killifish enthusiasts have actually been using these jiffy peat compressed disks for years as both a spawning medium and to lower their ph. I personally think that muriatic acid gives you more control over your ph, but that's a personal preference. Also, the amber color it gives to your water can make the colors of your shrimp appear duller than they really are.
For anyone wanting to use peat out there.....make ABSOLUTELY sure that the peat you buy does not contain any fertilizer at all. This applies to the jiffy peat disks, too (there are many varieties as far as I know). Lots of times companies add fertilizer to their peat without advertising it on the packaging. I had bought a bag of "100% peat" (Scott's brand) before...and as I was soaking it I decided to test the soak water. Well....the nitrates and ammonia were *off the charts." I recommend testing any brand for nitrates and ammonia before sticking the peat into your tank or filter.
As for the coconut fiber....you can use it as a substrate if you want, but it's very, very messy (and dirty). If you're talking about the brick shaped compressed coconut fiber, then you need to soak it first for it to expand and wash it about 259 times (=many, many times) before the water runs clear of dust, dirt, and tiny coconut fiber particles. Even then, if you put it in your tank, it will get disturbed and float into your water column every time you do anything in the tank (e.g. catch shrimp with a net). Also, before soaking it releases some residual nitrate (comparitively small amounts) into the water, so soaking and washing is essential for that reason, too.
Thanks, Mustafa- I wasn't sure what the coconut fiber would do to the water, and if it is even safe to use. I won't- I suppose the peat pellets (no ferts) could be put inside a media bag..... however, I think I might stick with the muriatic acid idea- why do people dilute this as opposed to using a drop or 2 full strength, then testing? I have heard people using 20%, 50%, etc...... is there a reason for this?
Thanks for the warning about the peat pellets and fertilizer. I did a search on their use with killifish and found that there is actually a very small amount of fertilizer added to these even though the label states 100% peat.
Fortunately, this fertilizer is water soluble and should be easily removed if the pellets are soaked overnight. Fortunately, I've been soaking them and draining the excess water before using them because I just always figured that it made sense to clean them up a bit just in case.
So, I will still use these peat pellets, but will now do a double soak and rinse, and will test the water to see what is in them.
paintworx wrote:Badflash, it is CRS (crystal reds) I will be keeping..... I know they are a lot more sensitive to water parameters than the cherries. SO does that change your idea of the solutions I need ?
For acidic water get the 4/7 calibration solutions. You also should get distilled or R/O water. Fighting hard water with acid to make it soft turned to be impossible for me. By the time I got the pH down the TDS was out the roof.
I have a 30 GPD R/O unit and add a little R/O right to get the hardness I want. For the first few weeks I needed to add acid daily to get the pH down. After the bacteria got established I didn't need to do that any more.
In my 20 gallon tank I do a weekly water change of 5 gallons and add 1 tsp of R/O right. My pH stays around 6.5.
paintworx wrote:yucca, how much does the peat bring the ph down?
Right now my acidic tank is at pH 6.6. I am using two peat pellets in a 29 gallon tank.
I just called the company that makes the Jiffy brand pellets and asked if there was any added fertilizer. I was told that there is a very tiny amount of water soluble fertilizer added which they claim is completely gone after the third watering (if you were growing plants).
I just tossed a pellet into a liter of water and will do some testing of the water over time to determine how much fertilizer is actually in a pellet. Hopefully, I can continue to use these with a safe procedure to remove that tiny bit of fertilizer.
milalic wrote:So you use the acid in the water before putting it in in the tank? or you just drop the ro water inside the tank and that is it?
-Pedro
My R/O water is about 7.8 out of the tap, but when I add it to my tank it has almost no effect on the pH. When I add the R/O water I wait an hour or so and check the pH. Only after letting nature do it's thing do I add any acid. In very pure water it takes vary little acid or base to swing the pH a few points in either direction. Once mixed with "live" water with natural buffers the stuff in the R/O water pretty much just dissapears.
If you buy the Muratic Acid at Home Depot or Manards.
This is the cheapest place to buy it.
It is 20% concentrated. Make a mix of 50% Acid and 50% Water.
This will give you 10% concentrated.
I use a Contact/Saline bottle.
Yes, you can add this solution straight to you tank.
Do this a drop at a time.
If you are using Acid.
When you are mixing, be careful not to breath in the gas of the acid.
I use rubber glove also.
