I received some cherry shrimp a bit ago, and I have a few questions I can't seem to find the answers for. First, the shrimp I have are young, but is it safe to assume that a cherry with evenly distributed red specks (enough to give a noticeable rosy hue) is a female? Some of my shrimp are small, but much redder than other shrimp that are the same size or larger. I've also noticed some shrimp with significant red coloration on the scale portion of antenna 2, and others lacking any in that area, this among shrimp of the same size - another clue to gender?
I assume that while a shrimp with a "saddle" is always female, a shrimp without one may be female as well. Is this assumption correct?
Finally, is a 10% loss of shrimp after shipping/acclimation the norm, or cause for alarm? In the few days after I received a group of 20 shrimp, I lost 2, possibly 3. After being in the hobby as long as I have, I have "acceptable loss" figures for some fish - for example, losing 20% of many lampeyes (after import of wild fish! long-term aquarium residents should have losses near zero), while maddening, is not an indicator of disease or water chemistry issues - what's the norm for cherry shrimp? From reading the forum, I see that 0 losses is typical, but at what point should I become concerned?
Arcane Cherry Shrimp Knowledge
Moderator: Mustafa
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Neonshrimp
- Master Shrimp Nut
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Hi lampeye,
when trying to distinguish between male and femal RCS I no longer use color as a guide. This is due to the fact that color is influenced by more factors than just the sex of a shrimp. I have had red males and pale females that carried eggs. Here is an excerpt from Mustafa's new article;
With dwarf shrimp sexually mature males are slimmer, more streamlined and their abdominal area does not extend down beyond the pleopods. Sexually mature females are plumper, look larger and their abdominal area extends down beyond the pleopods to accommodate eggs. Also, females have a dark or bright patch in the area right behind their heads, also colloquially called "saddle."
On the question regarding death during shipping/acclimation, there should be NO Deaths if the shrimp are healthy and shipped correctly. If you are having shrimp die then you need to think about stress and illness due to poor conditions before, during and after the shipping. You can't do much about the before and during but you can make sure you acclimate the shrimp slowly and carefully into a tank that has the proper water parameters for the shrimp.
Hope the rest of your shrimp are healthy and keep enjoying what you are doing
when trying to distinguish between male and femal RCS I no longer use color as a guide. This is due to the fact that color is influenced by more factors than just the sex of a shrimp. I have had red males and pale females that carried eggs. Here is an excerpt from Mustafa's new article;
With dwarf shrimp sexually mature males are slimmer, more streamlined and their abdominal area does not extend down beyond the pleopods. Sexually mature females are plumper, look larger and their abdominal area extends down beyond the pleopods to accommodate eggs. Also, females have a dark or bright patch in the area right behind their heads, also colloquially called "saddle."
On the question regarding death during shipping/acclimation, there should be NO Deaths if the shrimp are healthy and shipped correctly. If you are having shrimp die then you need to think about stress and illness due to poor conditions before, during and after the shipping. You can't do much about the before and during but you can make sure you acclimate the shrimp slowly and carefully into a tank that has the proper water parameters for the shrimp.
Hope the rest of your shrimp are healthy and keep enjoying what you are doing
Re: Arcane Cherry Shrimp Knowledge
That's usually the beginning of a long addiction.lampeye wrote:I received some cherry shrimp a bit ago, and I have a few questions I can't seem to find the answers for.
First, the shrimp I have are young, but is it safe to assume that a cherry with evenly distributed red specks (enough to give a noticeable rosy hue) is a female?
No. It's extremely hard, and impossible for all practical purposes, to tell genders in young red cherry shimp. Both males and females can have those red specks when young. Some young have more, some less, regardless of gender. I have had very red looking young turn into males and very color young turn into females. Their colors usually adjust gender-specifically (i.e. females more colorful) once they become adults.
Some of my shrimp are small, but much redder than other shrimp that are the same size or larger.
See above.
I've also noticed some shrimp with significant red coloration on the scale portion of antenna 2, and others lacking any in that area, this among shrimp of the same size - another clue to gender?
This sounds like normal color variation to me. Red cherry shrimp (like many shrimp species) can be extremely variable with regards to coloration, patterning and color intensity depending on mood and environment.
Correct.I assume that while a shrimp with a "saddle" is always female, a shrimp without one may be female as well. Is this assumption correct?
Especially with young adults one can get fooled pretty easily. Some seemingly "male" shrimp start developing eggs in their ovaries and gain more color....obviously females. Finally, is a 10% loss of shrimp after shipping/acclimation the norm, or cause for alarm?
The norm for shipping related losses should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 0%. Healthy animals shipped properly will arrive alive. If the animals were stressed out to begin with, then they are more likely to die in transit. As for losses after the shrimp are released into your tank, there are two possibilities. If the shrimp were stressed out and non-healthy animals to begin with and your package already arrived with a few dead animals, then you are more likely to see more animals dying over next few hours, days etc. It takes some time and observation to figure out if animals are healthy looking or not, but after a while you will get the hang of it. Another "death" culprit might just be water parameters in the tank (even stuff that you can't/dong usually measure). Even if your fish were doing fine in a given tank does not mean that the shrimp will be fine, too. Quite a bit has been written about possible death causes due to environment, so it's probably a good idea to look up the info if you suspect that there is something wrong in your tank.
If the red cherries come from a breeder with good stock, then the losses should be 0. Red cherries are not wild-caught, as they are an articificially selected color mutation, but there are farms in asia that breed them in large numbers. Many of the red cherries offered in stores and by known importers online are farm bred shrimp. For all practical purposes they should be treated like wild-caught imported shrimp. The figures for losses of imported shrimp are terrible as the exporters and importers have no idea how to ship the shrimp, how to keep them alive and healthy while holding them etc..etc. So, 100% losses are not a rarity. Having a box arrive with 50% to more than 80% dead and deyacing shrimp arrive at the airport is more the norm than the exception. You can imagine that the survivors in such bags aren't doing that great either, so most, if not all, of them will die within hours or days. It's really a rarity to receive a box of good looking imported shrimp. Many "shady" sellers out there will try to sell their imported shrimp as soon as possible after arrival to unsuspecting people to make a quick buck. Once the shrimp die in the buyers' tanks one can always blame the buyer.In the few days after I received a group of 20 shrimp, I lost 2, possibly 3. After being in the hobby as long as I have, I have "acceptable loss" figures for some fish - for example, losing 20% of many lampeyes (after import of wild fish! long-term aquarium residents should have losses near zero), while maddening, is not an indicator of disease or water chemistry issues - what's the norm for cherry shrimp? From reading the forum, I see that 0 losses is typical, but at what point should I become concerned?
Very shady, unethical and short-term thinking, but still quite common. That's the reason I do not ever offer imported shrimp on my website. I just can't justify killing so many animals and offering sub-par animals to the public. And let's not forget that many shrimp are actually endangered, whithout having made it to endangered lists yet as not much attention is paid to small invertebrates. I just don't want to contribute to that. Captive breeding is the long term solution for the hobby.
Hope this helps.
That's really one of the best cues. Also, if the shrimp has a "milky" body and the coloration/shell is not vibrant but more dull, then the shrimp is in trouble.lampeye wrote:It definitely helps. Thanks, guys. Right now my understanding of a "shrimp in trouble" is one that is hanging around without picking at anything for any noticeable length of time. Any other cues to watch?
I wish I could blame it on the shipper. It must be on me -they were very well packed. I haven't suffered any more losses, so I'm left with a few question marks. I can live with 3 or so losses out of 20.
My only guess is that maybe they got caught in some wrinkles in the breather bags? I've had that happen with fish, and while I never lost one like that, they've been in BAD shape the times it's happened. A tiny little shrimp probably wouldn't take that kind of thing very well. That's my best guess, since the survivors seem to be thriving and getting redder by the day.
My only guess is that maybe they got caught in some wrinkles in the breather bags? I've had that happen with fish, and while I never lost one like that, they've been in BAD shape the times it's happened. A tiny little shrimp probably wouldn't take that kind of thing very well. That's my best guess, since the survivors seem to be thriving and getting redder by the day.
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badflash
- Master Shrimp Nut
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I've seen losses if the water parameters are very different from one tank to another. I have a bunch of 10 gallon tanks and some are stuck at the high end of the pH range up around 8.25 for reasons I've ever been able to figure out, or cure. Most of my tanks are right around 7.5. When I transferred shrimp to a couple of these high pH tanks I had losses or 2 out of 10 even though they were totally healthy shrimp with no more trafer stress than neeting them and taking them down stairs. Once that i nitial shock was over, they started breeding just like the other tanks.
Heh - I was in a panic Sat. morning because I saw one of my cajun dwarfs on his back. (OH SNAP THERES SOMETHING TOXIC IN MY WATER FIRST THE CHERRIES NOW MY CAJUNS WHAT IS THIS?!?!?) I turned on the light and started to swear and before I even finished the word he tipped over and walked off. His cast off exo. was lying there. He must have pulled his way free and taken a nap. 
