Saddles

nemesis1337 · Post by **nemesis1337** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:01 pm

I recently started a tank for cherry shrimps. The parameters are all fine and it's been running for almost 5 months. Problem is I can't seem to find any shrimps developing saddles. I followed Mustafa's way of filling the ground with oak leaves and feeding them once a week. I'm confused why my RCS aren't producing even saddles. The pH is around 7.9. Could this be because of malnourishment or stress? I change the water every week at 20% each time.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:07 pm

How many cherry shrimp do you have in the tank and are they all the same color red? I am wondering if you have all male shrimp or another reason.

nemesis1337 · Post by **nemesis1337** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:37 pm

around 7
i know for certain 3 are males, the others have intense red, but i can't see any saddles on them.

Post by **Mustafa** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:39 pm

If they are "intense red" then you won't be seeing the eggs in the ovaries and hence no "saddle." The color on these shrimp can get so intense that it covers everything...even eggs when the female is ovigerous. That still does not explain why you haven't been getting any offspring the last few months.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:06 pm

How are you treating your water? Any additives?

nemesis1337 · Post by **nemesis1337** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:09 pm

just prime, but i do have clay pots and crushed corals in the tank.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:23 pm

Check your water for phosphates. In my shrimp >5 ppm stopped egg production.

JK · Post by JK » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:54 am

My guess would be that because your only giving them supplementary food once a week, they are not yet getting sufficient natural food from the leaf litter.

I found that feeding extremely tiny amounts of food two, even three times a day in these surcumstances makes a huge difference to the number of saddles. I can't stress enough how small the amount is.....I'm talking a fraction of one flake at a time. And this is in combination with a regular water change every week.

I know this goes a little against what Mustafa says, but the leaf litter can take quite a while to kick in, especially with oak leaves.

nemesis1337 · Post by **nemesis1337** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:22 am

could be phosphate...i have massive hair algae growth in this tank. are clay pots sources of high phosphate?

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:13 am

I doubt the phosphates come from the pots unless they hat fertilizer soaked into them. This should was out. Excessive algae growth can be an indicator of both high nitrates & phosphates. Check your make-up water to see if there are phosphates in it. If you are in a farming area contamination from the fields can be a big issue. Getting an R/O unit may be needed, and then additives like Electro-Right for the proper hardness.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:06 am

badflash wrote:Check your water for phosphates. In my shrimp >5 ppm stopped egg production.

Are there any other effects "physical/healthwise" that high phosphates will cause, signs/symptoms of phosphate poisoning?

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:49 am

Up to around 50 ppm is noticed nothing other than no eggs. Females with eggs added to the tank lost the eggs after a few days. At higher levels the shrimp show loss of color and seem very tired. I was using a phosphate based buffer (proper pH) and that was a HUGE mistake. The amanos and cherries survived even at levels of 2000 ppm, but were dying off one by one.

50 ppm seems to be the cut-off for activiity, and 3 ppm is the limit for eggs, at least for what I had. My experience was not very scientific. It took me forever (actually about a month & a half) to get the phosphates down. Levels didn't change very fast even with 50% water changes. Phosphate kept comming out of the gravel and keeping it high enough for me to get some feel for how the shrimp were doing.

See viewtopic.php?t=143&start=0&postdays=0& ... highlight=

Das Dee · Post by **Das Dee** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:24 am

Hi,

just a little question...
What are saddles?

Br.,
Dirk

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:39 am

They are the developing eggs in the female shrimp's ovaries. They show up as dark patches in the back of the female's head and look like a small horse saddle

Post by **Mustafa** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:31 am

JK wrote: I know this goes a little against what Mustafa says, but the leaf litter can take quite a while to kick in, especially with oak leaves.

It doesn't really go against what I said.

I've mentioned before that it takes some time for the fungi, bateria, algae..etc. to establish themselves on and in the leaves. That's why it's advantageous to have many leaves instead of just throwing one or two in there. And I also feed my shrimp additionally, but, as you said, one needs to be very careful about overfeeding. Most people don't know how much to feed when they start in this hobby (and even when they progress a little). So, it's better to err on the side of too little and have healthy shrimp that might not reproduce as quickly as one wants than err on on the side of too much and have dead shrimp that won't reproduce *guaranteed.* One can always increase the amount of food once one gets the hang of the right amount.