Shrimp gender

[badflash]

Here is what I said. I stand by it.

Shrimp don't get along with most fish, shrimp don't get along with ferts, and shrimp won't clean up your tank.

[MikeR]

Mustafa:

I hadn't intended coming back, but you and S+S had been so kind and helpful that I wanted to thank you personally. I did read all of the required reading, and had found that most or all of the shrimp were not compatible with most fish in one way or another (fish against the shrimp, or shrimp against the fish). I only related my own previous experience with what I had thought were the amano shrimp (someone said perhaps they were rainbow shrimp since I found young ones later), not in an attempt to justify trying to keep them now.

In fact, I believe it was Badflash that stated guppies would harm the shrimp when I mentioned I had intended to put some in a large (3000 gallon) pond that had guppies only. I found that startling, but accepted it. That response to S+S about the guppy not killing the grass shrimp was uncalled for, however.

I also took the advice that the shrimp would not do as I had thought they would, i.e., keep algae at bay. That is why I purchased a number of otocinclus and several Ancistrus claro for this tank and forgot the idea that the shrimp would be useful. I was going to add some Amano (per another post here), as it had working the past, instead of the cherrys. I thought that a tank of their own would be better, again because of what I read here.

Now that I understand the needs of the shrimp better, they will not (even the amanos) be added to the planted tank. I've kept aquatic creatures for 40+ years, and NEVER intentially kept anything in anything but the best conditions I could manage, and refused to keep anything that would not do well long-term (SW sharks, for example).

The grass shrimp were added before I found out when I now know, not DESPITE what I've learned (please note that the date of my start here is less than two weeks ago, AFTER I added those shrimp). They will be removed before the fish arrive. I was simply replying to S+S, not trying to justify it. The nitrates in this tank are zero, FWIW, as is true for ammonia and nitrites. Doesn't mean that the water is still good for the shrimp, just a statement of the current conditions.

I did do the research, but even your excellent articles didn't answer all of my questions, hence my participation here. I'm sorry that my questions and relating of my previous experiences came across as an attempt to contrivert the assertions found in your articles, or suggest that I was going to attempt to keep shrimps in an improper environment despite that information.

I do admit I took exception to what I felt were some shots from Badflash. This person is obviously very experienced with these creatures, and apparently passionate about them, as are you and S+S, and I can see that this person would take exception and have hard feelings for someone who is perceived to want to deliberately harm his friends.

OTOH, no one likes to feel unwelcome, and I know, especially when the administrator of a site tells you that you are not an asset to their community, you have over-stayed your welcome. Again, I do appreciate your information, and believe it or not, I will follow it.

Thank you, sir,

Mike

[badflash]

Mike,
I'm sorry if you think I was taking shots at you. I was getting frustrated because no matter what I said, you would come back with some reason why you didn't think it mattered, when I knew different.

We've had lots of people come & go with a similar M.O. and I didn't want it to end like that. You are obviously experienced and good at what you've done. It is just that shrimp are totally different. I also have kept fish for over 40 years, but keeping shrimp was a challenge.

I did not mean to say that guppies will kill adult shrimp, but many fish will. I did say if you keep most fish with shrimp you'll get no babies. This is certainly true of guppies.

Lets hope you stay and we get off to a better start.

[MikeR]

Bad:

Thanks for the message. I'm sorry that you thought I was ignoring your advice, or that of others. I was just trying to gain a better understanding of how my own experiences in the light of the information and advice here. My experience is quite limited (one set of shrimp in one tank, and the shrimp were almost as big as the cichlids), and I know that what I see in books can be very misleading, kind of like that picture of a lion laying down with a lamb; it might work, but you'd have to replace the lamb alot . I've never SEEN any of the shrimp shown at this site, so my opinion of them or how to keep them is useless.

I think I'll mostly lurk for a while until I gain a better understanding of the community here (not to sulk, but just not to jump in so fast).

Thanks again,

Mike

[badflash]

That is kool. You are welcome here to lurk or to post. Start off slow with shrimp keeping. I killed a bunch of shrimp before I figured out that less is more. Maybe my guilt makes me a little too passionate.

[Neonshrimp]

We will learn with time but along the way there will be bad experiences with the good. We should learn from them to provide the best care for our shrimp

[MikeR]

I went back through the previous posts on this site, and read enough that I have eye-strain. I can see now why Badflash made the statements to me as he did. I would be frustrated with me, too.

To bring this thread back to its title, does anyone know of any controlled studies as to gender percentages for the cherry shrimp? I picked that one because it seems from reading the titles in this forum that that is the most commonly shrimp around here. This is just intellectual curiosity, as I'm not sure it matters given the numbers people seem to generate.

Thanks,

Mike

[Neonshrimp]

Hey MikeR,

I think it is a valuable thing to have a discussion as passionate and thought provoking as this thread has been. I hope it provides us with new information and expands our knowledge base of these wonderful animals.

Thanks all.

[MikeR]

Neon:

Thanks. I know I've learned a great deal, on several levels.

I did check the net for information concerning gender percentages, but if there is any such information, I haven't looked in the right places. I thought that perhaps hobbyists had noticed that they grew a proponderance of males or females, and perhaps noticed if there was any change in that ratio.

For example, in certain fishes, if the water they are spawning in is somewhat alkaline, you get mostly males, while you get mostly females if it is acidic. A biologist I spoke to many years ago suggested that a more acidic water suggests an increase in available territory (lots of rain), while more alkaline water suggests a drought. Since fewer females means fewer babies, he suggested that perhaps a tendency of the environment towards alkaline water avoided overcrowding.

I wondered if shrimp had the same method of population control. They, I might think, would be lower on the food chain, so perhaps that control isn't necessary.

Mike

[Neonshrimp]

I wondered if shrimp had the same method of population control. They, I might think, would be lower on the food chain, so perhaps that control isn't necessary.

Mike

Mike, the shrimp hobby is still very young and this hypothesis you just stated may be solved with some work and dedication. When this does happen we will be reading the results on the net or this site. I hope it happens sooner than later

[badflash]

I've not heard of anyone doing a controlled test. I have observed population restriction due to overcrowding. Once a certain density is readed the females slow way down on the baby end.

[TKD]

I've not heard of anyone doing a controlled test. I have observed population restriction due to overcrowding. Once a certain density is readed the females slow way down on the baby end.

I agree with that completly.
I have noticed that I'm getting less and less babies now.

TKD

[MikeR]

Neon:

I'll keep watching.

Badflash:

Is the overcrowding species-specific or simply increased numbers of all shrimps? I noticed that most people don't keep more than one species in the same tank, so perhaps that question is moot.

I figured that there is some method of population control. The shrimp's method seems much simpler.

Thanks,

Mike

[badflash]

I keep several species together in all of my tanks, but only 1 tank do I keep different species of shrimp. I mix crays and shrimp together mostly.

Where I have amanos, the growth of the cherry population is much lower. I've never seen an amano kill a baby cherry, but clearly, something is happening.

[MikeR]

Bad:

Now THAT's interesting; that one species may inhibit the population of another by its mere presence, not predation. I knew that the size of individuals could be affected by overcrowding, but not numbers.

Thanks!

Mike