I would like to create a CRS grading guide...

aman74 · Post by **aman74** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:30 pm

It's been really frustrating trying to find grading info on CRS. I've gathered pieces of info from forum posts and the various guides out there, yet with the hours of research put in, there's still much more to learn.

It's all fine and well for people to say a tiger tooth with 4 bands is such and such of a grade, but they don't consider that many people don't know what a tiger tooth is or even which bands are being referred to. It's hard to describe without a picture and even when there are pictures there is no detailed description, etc...

I want to get very in depth and do something comprehensive as I am a very detail oriented person, so if you have the time and are so inclined to help I would love to hear from you.

Post by **Mustafa** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:33 pm

I will eventually put up a guide with pictures and explanations as part of this website. It will have both the Japanese grading system and a spanking brand-new and improved American Version.

I just need to get the animals and take their pictures. So far I have not really paid attention to breeding various "grades" as I have had trouble accepting the notion of grading animals as if one animal (say "C Grade) is worth less (as a life form) than the other (Say "A grade"). I have bee shrimp and crystal red shrimp here that don't fit any grade, but I think they are beautiful. I also find very red/black animals with two or three very defined white lines very, very nice, or totally red/black (no white) animals. BUT....people out there seem to have accepted the Japanese CRS grades, so I will have to just get over my problems with grading animals and cater to that need by providing some information. Better the right information, then no information.

However, there is no reason for us to always just lag behind and follow what's happening in Japan with the CRS. With an American grading system, we could give our creativity as breeders free reign and come up with colors and patterns that even the Japanese have not come up with. A lot of the Japanese and pattern names are culturally influenced and don't really make much sense for non-Japanese (e.g. tiger tooth, hinomaru, mosura...etc...etc.).

Who knows...before you know it, Japanese might just be interested in the patterns of American CRS and try to get them from breeders here in the US.

aman74 · Post by **aman74** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:02 pm

I understand what you mean about not wanting to grade a life form, but just because there is a grading system doesn't mean people are saying one animal is "better" than another. We are free to attach that notion to the grading system, but we certainly don't have to.

It's more about being informed for the sake of information and also for the sake of being an educated consumer and seller as well.

I'd also suggest to you that if it wasn't for the orginal breeder trying to strive for certain qualities, we wouldn't even have them in the first place.

I'm glad to see you are doing a guide and you stand a better chance of getting one done than I do since I would have to rely on others and so far that isn't panning out.

So maybe I will just post a bunch of questions here for you and then you can use them if you like as items to consider for your guide. So even if I can't do the guide at least I helped one come about.

milalic · Post by **milalic** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:52 pm

I thinl having the CRS guide on the site would be great. I am not sure why we should have an American version when the CRS breeding for quality, patterns, etc was started in Japan. It would create more confusion.

Unless someone in the USA breed CRS with a very distinctive pattern, I do not see what an American CRS grading guide will add to the hobby. It just will add confusion.

Cheers,
Pedro

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:38 am

I think that CRS "Discription Guide" ie. Grading scale would be a great idea.
If other Hobbiest are working on a all Red or a All Black or a 3 banded
That has the defined lines a "S-grade" What would you call them ?

The Hobbiest that are setting the Standards for the Grading scale are not including the all Reds, Blacks or Shrimp without 4 bands.

There can still be "quality" in a Shrimp that has a pattern different than the ones listed on other webisites or books that will need interpritation.

However, there is no reason for us to always just lag behind and follow what's happening in Japan with the CRS. With an American grading system, we could give our creativity as breeders free reign and come up with colors and patterns that even the Japanese have not come up with. A lot of the Japanese and pattern names are culturally influenced and don't really make much sense for non-Japanese (e.g. tiger tooth, hinomaru, mosura...etc...etc.).

If pattern & color are influenced by culture and there are already curtain names being use like Hinomaru, let it stand.
But why cannot a solid Red CRS be included in a "Description Listing" ?

I am sure that there are alot of other color patterns that are in over seas tanks that we here in the US have never seen.
Because of Culturally infuenced or they will not be accepted in the Overseas market.
I do not see any C grade CRS being offer for sale from the
Oversea Hobbiest on any Auction Site.
Why not ? they are still a very interesting Shrimp. But they do not stand up to other Hobbiest Standards.
When there are any C-B grade CRS at my LPS , it does not take long for them to be sold.
People are interested in the lower grade Shrimp, but it is a status symbol to have the highest Grade.

So a US Amended Discription list whould be nice, but I do not think that the current names should be taking away just added to.

Sorry for rambling
It is early and I have not had my coffee

John

milalic · Post by **milalic** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:44 am

I have seen CRS from Japan that are all white, that only have red head, just certain lines and different shapes of lines. They are actively working on different patterns. They do have their grading system and they are above SS-SSS grade for the most part.

-Pedro

Post by **Mustafa** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:16 am

We're not talking about the all white ones. I'm sure John has already seen those. We're talking about all-red, all black and all kinds of other colors and patterns that are *not* deemed "worthy" right now in being included in any kind of grading by the Japanese. If you haven't noticed yet, they have a fascination with more and more white.

John, don't worry, I wasn't thinking about getting rid of the grading standard that's already there. I would just add to it to create an American standard (which would include all-red, all black and future patterns and colors yet to be bred here). Plus, I would suggest using some more descriptive, English names for things like "Mosura" etc.. It would just make it so much easier for Americans to understand what's going on and actually be able to pronounce the grades of the shrimp.

Having said that, I would also have the original Japanese grading standard up on this site (and amend it as they come up with new stuff in Japan) so that people can see the equivalents and differences between the Japanese and the American grades. If done this way, I don't see why this would cause confusion at all. People would have access to both grading systems and breeders here in the US would have more room for creativity. After all, the Japanese are free to add to their own system as they develop new patterns/colors, why should we always wait for them to come up with new stuff? Makes no sense and limits the hobby here.

By the way...I would put nicely colored all-reds or all-blacks right up there with SS or SSS or "all white" or mosura depending on the intensity of their coloration. Such shrimp should be similarly hard to breed.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:28 am

milalic
I know that the Hobbiest in Japan are working on different patterns.
Most of the patterns/grades are so high priced most Hobbiest in the US can not or will not pay for them. Or they are "very hard" to breed, a large % of the Hobbiest here in the US would not be able to breed them.

So why can not there be a "poor Hobbiest" grading scale. If Hobbiest here in the US have the "lower" grades and want to work on solid red or a different pattern there should be a place to go and check out the new US grading scale. And if someone has a "New" different pattern they should be able to come up with there own Name or select from a list to best describe the new pattern.

A Hobbiest from Japan may have developed the CRS. But the Hobbiest from Japan should not be able to dictate to the rest of the World what is a Higher Grade. If some likes all Red or someone wants to work on a 3 white 2 red banded CRS that has the color intensity as a SSS+ let them.

The CRS Breeding is just one part of the Invert Hobby. It gets alot of attention mostly because of the High Prices. If a SSS+ was a $5.00 instead of a $500.00 everyone would have them just like the RCS. And you would not be able to sell them on the auction sites .

Mustafa
I did not think you would get rid of the original grading standard, maybe translate it into words that we could understand the meaning of the word.

John

milalic · Post by **milalic** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:44 am

John,

It should not be a poor hobbiest grading guide. If you get a new pattern in a shrimp, it probably will be expensive for some time depending on how easy it is to breed the shrimp.

I get what Mustafa is trying to do, he basically wants a grading system for patterns that in Japan they are not paying attention to them. That type of grading system, I am not against. Also, explaining in more detail what a Mosura, etc consists, that would be good.

I am just against redefining the current grading system and creating confusion.

-Pedro

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:07 am

milalic

I should have put

Poor Hobbiest

or

Common Joe/Jane

I was just joking about the name.

I just think that a new pattern from "lower" Grade CRS is more likly here in the US than someone buying a small Colony of $700.00 each Shrimp
and coming up with there own Pattern.

That is were the

Poor

came from.

Any information, to better understand, this rapidly growing Hobby
whould be a asset
John

aquafever · Post by **aquafever** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:30 am

Actually, I don like to "grading" the CRS. I name them from their white color which more or less. Say...

3-band = A grade
4-band = S grade
tiger tooth, V-band SS grade
hino, W hino = SSS grade
upper = SSSS grade
upper upper = SSSSS grade
how about upper and upper and upper = ???????? grade

That's why I don grading them, just call them 4-band, tiger tooth, V-band hino, W hino, Mosura...and so on....

Debi · Post by **Debi** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:15 pm

I found a site that has all the grades along with photos of each grade (I found it very helpful), would I be able to post the url here? The shrimp on the site are not for sale, it's just informational. Let me know, and I'll post it here.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 pm

Hey Debi,

If it's not a commercial site, you may post. I would like to see if this guide is any better than the others already out there

Thanks.

Debi · Post by **Debi** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:26 pm

Hi Neonshrimp,

It's actually another shrimp forum/site - would that be allowed?

Debi

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:27 pm

Yes, it is allowed.